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Thread: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

  1. #196
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    it would probably come down to the force required on the pedal.
    light car + large diameter discs and reasonable pedal travel = not as much force required.
    boosted will always be easier, for anyone to drive if necessary, but RT40 is nto a heavy car
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  2. #197
    Mechanarchist Grease Monkey demios's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    The RTA website lists engine converstions less than 15% larger than the largest size engine option that the car originally sold with as being "owner engineered" modifications. This seems to mean that upgrading my 5ME (2.8L) to a 7MGE (3.0L) would be "owner engineered".. but the actual power of the engine might increase as much as 90-100hp after the modification, I assume I'm missing something here- surely an engineer has to give the go-ahead on this to make sure my brakes are up to stopping the car still?

    Earlier in this thread I noticed that the NCOP seems to have far stricter restrictions on engine conversions.. I'm finding the whole thing a little hard to get my head around in terms of which set of standards takes precedence over the other, and what this ultimately means for someone trying to get a car registered in NSW with a non-standard engine.

  3. #198
    Car Butcher Carport Converter WDE_BDY's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    Just as a point on owner engineered stuff and your 5ME to 7MGE, power modifications where weight doesn't change technically have no impact on braking. Speed limit is exactly the same so stopping from that limit is the same, that tends not to work in reality but since you can't legally exceed the speed limit just because you have more power than original doesn't mean you need better brakes.

    Callum

  4. #199
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    the states guidelines take precedence over the national guidelines..
    the idea of the national guidelines is to produce mods that are acceptable in any state, so they may be a combination of many "strictest" things.

    it is not so different to curretn NSW regs tho.
    doesn't NSW regs say power also?
    still, 2.8 to 3L, if both are injected, probably can be an owner certified swap. (but best to call RTA techline as well)
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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  5. #200
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    My reading is that as long as the engine was an option for that model and the brakes ect are also upgraded to match whatever was offered OEM with that engine, it can be owner certified. UNLESS, other modifications such as camshafts etc which either increase power or raise questions about emmissions standards are in place, the you need engineering signatory (although, how likely that being checked in detail is questionable). I guess emissions plumbing might be a bit more obvious, but things like camshafts are a bit difficult to just "take a quick squiz" at.

    I've been reading a lot lately and I pretty much get the flavour that if the work such as welds and fabrication look up to scratch the rest is mostly safety related, albeit with more scrutiny applied than you'd get at rego time.

  6. #201
    Toymods V8 Member Too Much Toyota CrUZida's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    Your reading is correct.
    If you have a GX81, then you can drop in a JZX81 engine provided you install JXZ81 brakes, suspension, and any emissions related equipment (ie, nothing custom is allowed)

    You'll still need to get it inspected (ie, to change the engine number), but you shouldn't need engineering.

    There aren't too many cars that will fit this criteria though (except NA cars that had a turbo model)
    Peewee
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  7. #202
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    Anyone on here had any experience with having emissions certified as part of engineeering sign off? I note that the forms on the Dept of Infrastructure & Transport website relating to the national standards still show emissions as "to be determined" or similar. Indicates to me that they have not reached agreement as to how that would be tested. I realise that it is a minimum std and that states are free to exceed this, but I imagine they'd need some industry buy in.

  8. #203
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    afaik, that applies when that engine was released in a model IN AUS.. not an overseas model. was JZX8x released in Aus?

    my reading of NCOP is it is more the "maximum"... ie if you satisfy NCOP, it should satisfy any state, so it'S lowest common denominator.. or.. has the strictest parts of every state such that every state is happy...

    for emissions, you still need to have emissions gear there for the newer of the engine or car (can't make it worse), but the intention is that for cars that are covered by the more strict ADR's for emission, will be TESTED that they still meet those emission standards..

    or similar
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  9. #204
    Toymods V8 Member Too Much Toyota CrUZida's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    In WA the IM240 test has been dropped for the time being, with the old 5-gas test replacing it.
    However in NSW, VIC and SA I believe the IM240 test is still required.
    Peewee
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  10. #205
    Hide Yo Kids Hide Yo Wife Carport Converter hamgatan's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    Andrew not sure if youve come across this before..

    but whats the legality on NON-fixed oil returns on Big Singles? For example you know how stock returns are usually hard pipes? Well what if they were braided with Speedflow fittings? Is this permissible or does it have to be a hardline?
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  11. #206
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    I highly doubt it will be an issue, but like most things it will depend on the engineer signing off on it.
    Peewee
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  12. #207
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer Toy77's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post
    afaik, that applies when that engine was released in a model IN AUS.. not an overseas model. was JZX8x released in Aus?

    my reading of NCOP is it is more the "maximum"... ie if you satisfy NCOP, it should satisfy any state, so it'S lowest common denominator.. or.. has the strictest parts of every state such that every state is happy...

    for emissions, you still need to have emissions gear there for the newer of the engine or car (can't make it worse), but the intention is that for cars that are covered by the more strict ADR's for emission, will be TESTED that they still meet those emission standards..

    or similar
    Hi guys,

    I have engineered 3 vehicles in NSW in the last 2 months (as well as my celica twice before) - a patrol, cressida with 2j (factory setup) and a nissan laurel with a sr20.

    The national code of practice has not been implemented in NSW and the RTA are deciding which parts they will use and wont use. The code is not a set of the strictest requirements as such (NSW engine capacity rules are tighter than stated in the NCOP for example). There has been no time frame put on adopting these rules, or even if they have too.

    I agree with OC as to the vehicle having to be released in Aus for that to apply.

    As for emissions - both the laurel and the cressida had to do the IM240. both were running the factory computer and emissions gear.
    The idea being that these models were not ADR approved in Australia. The laurel was a mates car and i didn't push the point about sr20 engines being released here etc etc - his car passed the IM240 easily (admittedly with 2 cats in the exhaust).

    The 2j cressy is my dads car. so i did alot of the talking with the engineer. Basically the motor was not released in Aus, so keeping factory emissions gear does not mean it complies to ADRs.... I questioned the fact that the 2jz in a supra/aristo are approved for import under the SEVs compliance scheme and was that justification that with factory emission gear they complied. I was told that it wasn't, as the SEVS test vehicle may have had modifications to pass ADRs...

    It is a tough call... But basically the way it is working now for engineers if for them to be able to demonstrate how the car they are signing off complies. They now pass that proof of proving it on to you - the easiest way for them to protect themselves and their livelihood is to put the responsibility of proof onto you, by passing the current test which is the IM240.

    On the bright side - the test is free in NSW....

    Cheers
    Stew
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  13. #208
    Toymods V8 Member Too Much Toyota CrUZida's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Toy77 View Post
    I was told that it wasn't, as the SEVS test vehicle may have had modifications to pass ADRs...
    cough *bullshit* cough ...

    As IF that would actually be the case, because then it would be part of compliancing to carry out the same modification on EVERY one that gets complied.

    What if your 2JZ came from a complied vehicle, surely then legally that would already comply...

    Sounds like bureaucratic bullshit to me.

    I'm glad WA has dropped the IM240 test reverted back to the old 5-gas test for the time being. Mainly because they had a bunch of gumbys running the IM240 test and charging thousands for it!
    Peewee
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  14. #209
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer Toy77's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    yup i agree....

    that system is flawed... sugestions from engineer included new / different cats to comply. As for the rest of them that come in - well they aren't signing them off, so that liability lies with someone else - then finally down to the purchaser. Apparently if your car doesn't comply then the EPA 'could' direct you to repair to the suitable standard. In reality this would happen very rarely as the used by date for most cats is around the 80,000k mark etc... BUT cars have been done for it.

    If the 2jz came from a complied vehicle - then you would need to produce proof that it passed. Not simply 'it was registered, therefore it is legal'.
    If i could find a aus delivered 2j i had him agreeing to passing it that way... in the end IM240 wasn't that hard to pass.

    Now i'm not saying i agree, or that this is right, or that every engineer feels the same BUT i imagine in the future it will follow this trend (look into getting a brake conversion approved in NSW now!!!). I know that this time round many photos were taken along with all documentation (noise/emission tests, weigh bridge) to be filed by engineer to protect themselves against litigation.

    Cheers
    Stew
    Aerodynamics are for people who can’t build engines. – Enzo Ferrari

  15. #210
    Toymods V8 Member Too Much Toyota CrUZida's Avatar
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    Default Re: FAQ - National Code of Practice - NCOP Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Toy77 View Post
    If the 2jz came from a complied vehicle - then you would need to produce proof that it passed. Not simply 'it was registered, therefore it is legal'.
    If i could find a aus delivered 2j i had him agreeing to passing it that way...
    I fail to see the difference between an Australian delivered car (which complies with XYZ ADR's) and a SEVS delivered car (which also complied with XYZ ADR's).

    You don't have to provide proof of an Australian delivered car passed the test because its a blanket approval.
    So why do you need to provide proof of a SEVS delivered car passed the test when its, oh hang on a second, a blanket approval...
    Peewee
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