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Thread: The Mega Supercharger 4AGZE thread, using twinscrew charger

  1. #16
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    You might be correct in that, however the Twinscrew is so efficient, that as long as there is no additional heat at lower revs then I am not too much concerned. However as rpm rises and boost increases the bigger blower should prove to be the best choice. If however I determine otherwise then I will need to inform the community. I just want the 4agze owner to have as much at tap as possible. I want to feel that people are getting a bargain and the best bang for their buck.

    Ron

  2. #17
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic benjamin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    I am also fitting an OA2087 to my 4agze. I am getting it from a guy down in melbourne who fits them to Mini's and MG's etc

    http://www.hi-flow.com/HP1Home.htm

    I will be running a MAP Bottom end with a Bigport head and inlet manifold. I have removed the butterflys from the TVIS plate as I am too worried about air leaks if I go without the plate. All standard internals (just balanced) and even standard Compression ratio. To begin with I am only going to run 15psi and see how the standard computer handles it. Then I might up the boost to around 18psi and fit an Adaptronic Standalone Computer.

    RonRob. What SC to crank ratio are you running?
    21 psi would be around 2:1 with the 2087?
    Are you still using the standard injectors? If not, what power level did you need to change them?

    Do you have a link to any info on your car?

  3. #18
    AVGAS DRINKING Carport Converter 30psi 4agte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    The TVIS plate can be removed but you will need to weld in between the valley of the inlet manifold to beef it up a bit.

    I did run my manifold without weld for quite some time but on high boost the gasket was prone to blow out or leak!

    I personally HATE the [email protected] plate and would remove it if it is possible!! Although it may work in your favour for clearence of the S/C ??

  4. #19
    SC14'd Member Domestic Engineer nick.parker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Hi,
    I use a bigport n/a inlet manifold (because bigport is stock on the AW11) and no TVIS plate and the leakage is next to nothing. Yes it is not a 100% perfect seal and I will fix it one day, but it wont affect performance at all, doesn't even leak enough at idle to have any effectl. I used a new metal manifold gasket when I put it on.

    Benjamin, why not just use a small port inlet and have zero issue with this TVIS crap?

    It seems everyone is sucked in by bigger hole = more air - its tiring to read. Of course a bigger hole can fit more air for a given pressure drop. BUT I am dying to see somebody prove that the bigger bigport 'holes' on a 4AG are better for a street driven car. Maybe it will be me, since I intend to try a smallport head on my car later on this year. I haven't found anyone who's done a back to back comparison yet, except for n/a 4AGE where it seem almost unanimous that the smallport is better.

    Look at RonRobs 182kW, look at Angry4AG on CLUB4AG with 450rwhp and smallport gear. Rather than get 2% extra at the top end I'd go for a better drivability (more low end torque) where the car will be used 98% of the time.

    RonRob what C/R are you running?

    Cheers, Nick
    == 4AGZE SC14 Supercharged ==
    Now flogg'n the SC14 @ 18psi....

  5. #20
    AVGAS DRINKING Carport Converter 30psi 4agte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Quote Originally Posted by nick.parker
    Hi,
    I use a bigport n/a inlet manifold (because bigport is stock on the AW11) and no TVIS plate and the leakage is next to nothing. Yes it is not a 100% perfect seal and I will fix it one day, but it wont affect performance at all, doesn't even leak enough at idle to have any effectl. I used a new metal manifold gasket when I put it on.
    Yeah nick your spot on my air leak was barely even noticeable i only picked it cos there was a bit of a fuel/oily build up on the injector where it had been blowing out of the port!


    I spun out that Wil (angry 4ag) was using a small port head when i spoke to him !!!
    So it is deff able to be done! If i remember correctly he did mention going to a big port though.

  6. #21
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    I think that the small port gze manifold is better then the n/a manifold for s/c. Now of course I could be proven wrong, but short runners is what the s/c likes. Compression is stock 8:9 on the small port. Spinning it at max to get 21psi, hence the reason for the bigger blower. Spin it slower and make more power. Perhaps the .87L s/c is ideal a 1.6 or 1.8 n/a, but since our cars can handle boost, the bigger blower in my opinion is better suited for the goals of 4agze owners. For anyone attempting to go Twinscrew and have everything fabbed, I would say the .87L blower is going to be much more space and mounting friendly. The Bigger Blower is much more of a beast. Almost as big as the valve covers! Testing on this blower will be done soon.

    Benjamin, how much does Hi-Flow charge for their 2087?
    Ron

  7. #22
    back into it Chief Engine Builder
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Quote Originally Posted by RonRob
    I think that the small port gze manifold is better then the n/a manifold for s/c. Now of course I could be proven wrong, but short runners is what the s/c likes. Compression is stock 8:9 on the small port. Spinning it at max to get 21psi, hence the reason for the bigger blower. Spin it slower and make more power. Perhaps the .87L s/c is ideal a 1.6 or 1.8 n/a, but since our cars can handle boost, the bigger blower in my opinion is better suited for the goals of 4agze owners. For anyone attempting to go Twinscrew and have everything fabbed, I would say the .87L blower is going to be much more space and mounting friendly. The Bigger Blower is much more of a beast. Almost as big as the valve covers! Testing on this blower will be done soon.

    Benjamin, how much does Hi-Flow charge for their 2087?
    Ron
    exept for the short runners on one side! its a pretty average manifold!

  8. #23
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic benjamin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Quote Originally Posted by RonRob
    Benjamin, how much does Hi-Flow charge for their 2087?
    Ron
    Retail, they are charging AU$2950 plus GST (10%) so that makes it AU$3245.

    I am getting it through my brothers workshop though, so I might be getting a better deal.

  9. #24
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Quote Originally Posted by benjamin
    Retail, they are charging AU$2950 plus GST (10%) so that makes it AU$3245.

    I am getting it through my brothers workshop though, so I might be getting a better deal.
    Benjamin,
    Just so you know, I am doing my first run of 5 for the Aw11. Price is 3650Aus, while the Corollas should be slightly less as piping from outlet of s/c to intercooler will need to be made. Piping from Throttle body to afm will need to be made unless you are map based in which a filter can go on the end of the blower. I can do the same for the 2087 blower if that is prefered.
    Kit details:

    Big Blower with self contained oil system (400hp capable)
    Big Blower bracket
    Big Blower plumbing and piping to stock intercooler and stock afm (Only Aw11)
    New spring loaded tensioner and bracket relocation
    Aluminum 6 rib crank pulley
    Aluminum 6 rib water pump pulley
    Performance bypass valve
    Performance throttle body
    Belts and hardware.


    5 rib pulley configuration that our 4agze uses will cause slipage. Cogged is an option but very expensive. I am running cogged on the 2087.

    Ron

  10. #25
    SC14'd Member Domestic Engineer nick.parker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Hi RonRob,
    I take it the 6th rib is closer to the block, so as to create no hassle with ALT or A/C drive? I would be interested to see if your setup could work with the intake manifold and intercooler setup I have. Does your SC kit rely on using the stock SC inlet manifold? I imagine others may want to use the n/a inlet manifold.

    During your tuning, have you looked at exhaust temps on a cylinder to cylinder basis? Or rather do you know what degree of an imbalance in airflow between cylinders (with stock ZE manifold)? On most engines where I work (we make EMSs for OEMs and have dozens of dyno test cells/rooms) there is always a few percent here and there difference in cylinder mapping and thats on engines that probably have better design manifolds than the 4AGZE.

    Incidently for an expirement I plan on fitting 4 thermocouples to my exhaust manifold soon.

    Cheers, Nick
    == 4AGZE SC14 Supercharged ==
    Now flogg'n the SC14 @ 18psi....

  11. #26
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic benjamin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Quote Originally Posted by RonRob
    Benjamin,
    Just so you know, I am doing my first run of 5 for the Aw11. Price is 3650Aus, while the Corollas should be slightly less as piping from outlet of s/c to intercooler will need to be made. Piping from Throttle body to afm will need to be made unless you are map based in which a filter can go on the end of the blower. I can do the same for the 2087 blower if that is prefered.
    Kit details:

    Big Blower with self contained oil system (400hp capable)
    Big Blower bracket
    Big Blower plumbing and piping to stock intercooler and stock afm (Only Aw11)
    New spring loaded tensioner and bracket relocation
    Aluminum 6 rib crank pulley
    Aluminum 6 rib water pump pulley
    Performance bypass valve
    Performance throttle body
    Belts and hardware.


    5 rib pulley configuration that our 4agze uses will cause slipage. Cogged is an option but very expensive. I am running cogged on the 2087.

    Ron
    Thank you very much for the offer. I found your Posts in regard to your MR2 on the MROC forums and I am very impressed. 244bhp from a 1.6 is absolutely incredible!!!

    But I am going to try and mount my supercharger differently to the way you have ( I am in no way saying yours is bad but there are a few things I would like to try differently on my car when I fit it ) I will also be using a Water to Air intercooler and I will probably be using a throttle body from a Commodore or Falcon.

    I have been given an exact price of AU$3521 including GST for the 2087 supercharger, 1.5" bypass valve, pulley and lubrication kit.

  12. #27
    Estranged Member Chief Engine Builder mullett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    That's a bloody great deal, keep in touch for sure. Just out of curiosity, how much for the kit without:

    All plumbing
    Aluminium 6 rib waterpump pulley (I'm using EWP)
    Throttle body

    Just curious, because that would suit my needs perfectly.

    RM.

    Quote Originally Posted by RonRob
    Benjamin,
    Just so you know, I am doing my first run of 5 for the Aw11. Price is 3650Aus, while the Corollas should be slightly less as piping from outlet of s/c to intercooler will need to be made. Piping from Throttle body to afm will need to be made unless you are map based in which a filter can go on the end of the blower. I can do the same for the 2087 blower if that is prefered.
    Kit details:

    Big Blower with self contained oil system (400hp capable)
    Big Blower bracket
    Big Blower plumbing and piping to stock intercooler and stock afm (Only Aw11)
    New spring loaded tensioner and bracket relocation
    Aluminum 6 rib crank pulley
    Aluminum 6 rib water pump pulley
    Performance bypass valve
    Performance throttle body
    Belts and hardware.


    5 rib pulley configuration that our 4agze uses will cause slipage. Cogged is an option but very expensive. I am running cogged on the 2087.

    Ron

  13. #28
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Nick,
    Yes the bracket is dependent on the s/c manifold and is adjustable to fit a 4agze and a 7agze. We have the Bigger Blower fitted to a 7agze now. I am not using an egt, just a wideband. I believe it is time to start thinking outside of the box. The s/c manifold has already been proven to make 300rwhp. My plugs have never shown me any reason to doubt the manifold. It seems as if all the turbo guys choose to use the n/a manifold and I am not convinced it is the best option for the Twinscrew. I will have more dyno plots soon to support the s/c manifolds power capabilites. In my opinion it is not the manifold that does not help the stock s/c12 as it is the surrounding inefficiencies.

    Benjamim,
    Good luck with your Twinscrew setup. Keep in mind I have not posted pictures of the Bigger Blower mounted only the 2087. Also keep in mind that you can not use the 5 rib pulleys successfully on the 2087. You Should not use the stock tensioner design as it is not spring loaded. Then there is the bracket design, inlet and outlet design as well as the proper oiling. How much have you spent now? I have made many mistakes with design and blown a few blowers as a result. My kit is made at the expense of my mistakes so no one has to go through what I did. I hope you do not feel I am pulling your leg on this. My efforts made to share with 4agze owners because no body gives a rat ass about the 4agze which is why no one cares to make anything for us. My goal is to have a bolt on kit for the 4agze and hope fellow owners will support my efforts as I have over 10k US in R&D so I did not do this just to show and tell. Impossible in my eyes to recoop the funds I have spent over the years and I knew that from the beginning, but it would be great for fellow 4agze owners to give me support if they choose to go Twinscrew. You will not regret it.


    Mullett, are you saying that you are going to want the kit with no TB? So then you are going to use your own TB with Inlet design as well as make the 4agze Tps adapter yourself? That will not be a problem but I think you might spend more in the end and I can not warrant work that is not ours. I think I could do it without the water pump pulley perhaps, but the system is designed to work a certain way. I would hate to sell something half assed and then somthing goes wrong and the kit is not worthy in your eyes and others. Kit is well priced and in my opinion there is nothing else on the market as a bolt on kit for any vehicle that can double your horsepower output for the same dollar amount. Price I quoted for Aw11's is an initial 5 in which one offs for Aw11's will be 3200US. I figure about 150-200 US difference in price for Rollas. I could include anyone interested in the first batch of 5 with Aw11 owners or at anytime do a batch of five for corollas at the discounted rate.

    Thanks guys
    Ron

  14. #29
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic benjamin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    RonRob
    What would you sell the mounting brackets for (for the 2087)?

    Could you possibly let me know individual pricing for the following items? (also for the 2087)

    -Mounting bracket
    -SC Inlet and outlet
    -6 rib crank and water pump pulley

    I believe I can source everything else locally.

  15. #30
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Breaking a GZE piston or rod

    Quote Originally Posted by benjamin
    RonRob
    What would you sell the mounting brackets for (for the 2087)?

    Could you possibly let me know individual pricing for the following items? (also for the 2087)

    -Mounting bracket
    -SC Inlet and outlet
    -6 rib crank and water pump pulley

    I believe I can source everything else locally.

    I think it would be best to sell the kit as a whole. Mounting bracket requires a different tensioner design in which the stock one is not suitable. Tb matches the Inlet design and uses the factory Tps sensor. I feel that it might be difficult to imagine the entire setup and everything it consists of. With that said selling the kit as a whole is the recommended way.

    Thanks
    Ron

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