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Thread: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

  1. #1
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    I'm resourching all the parts I need to put a 3sge blacktop beams in my AE86 and I've got a question for the techperts here regarding mating a 3sge beams blacktop to a W58 gearbox with a 2S bellhousing on which I haven't been able to find a conclusive answer yet.

    What kind of startermotor, flywheel, clutch(fork) and release bearing can I use with the above mentioned combination?

    Some people say I can use the 3sge beams starter motor on the 2S bellhousing but I can't use the 3sge beams flywheel if I'm correct? This means I either have to adapt the gear on the starter motor to suit a different flywheel or the other way around? Or is there a better/different startermotor and flywheel combination available? Also keeping aftermarket clutch selection in mind.

    Also if I've been informed correctly the splined shaft coming out of the W58 gearbox is to short so I need a bigger/custom splined hub in the center of the clutch? Or do I need to machine down the surface of the bellhousing? If so by how much?

    Last thing, is it correct that I also need the shaft spacer and and bearing shown in this link because the splined shaft coming out of the gearbox is to short? http://www.ksracing.net/forums/index.php?topic=46460.0

    Sorry guys lots of questions but hopefully you can help me to sort out this piece of the puzzle!

    Cheers,

    Bozu

  2. #2
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    this might be of help:
    http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/fo...o-AE-KE-thread

    can't really comment on the choice of starter/bellhousing, but fwiw with my 3SGE I'm using a 2S bellhousing & starter and a gen2 3SGTE flywheel. I have to re-machine the flywheel friction surface so I'll get the ring gear turned around so the teeth suit the starter motor facing the wrong way. Am using a W58 box and will just use a double-road spigot bearing to capture the snout from the gearbox. Some build threads suggest the height of the clutch pivot pin needs to be increased.

    edit: plus these threads that I've collected:
    http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/fo...-a-3sge-to-RWD
    http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=50565
    http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.p...art=0&count=60

    but there are growing numbers of 3S RWD build threads here.
    ------------------------------
    ST185 road barge / MZ11 forest barge / RA65 garage barge

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    Apparently according to some guys on ae86dc can use the altezza flywheel and clutch kit with the 2S bellhousing aswell, however it is a good idea to get a single plate aftermarket flywheel because the stock one is way to heavy.
    But this way you also have the aftermarket clutch options for the altezza.

    Are you aware of the oil drain from the head of the block + startermotor issue? If so how are you going to tackle this?

    I decided to go for a different bellhousing for a number of reasons with the above mentioned being one of them, so the 2S with slave, fork and release bearing will be up for sale.
    Although I just discovered I can't put anything for sale here yet..

  4. #4
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    my car won't be seeing motorsport duty so will rely on the existing drains from the head. Am using all the 2S engine mounts so it's possible there'll be a slight lean on the block anyway?

    Starter shouldn't be an issue if Biggo's thread is anything to go by. Am using the stock exhaust manifold & suitable heat-shields which will clear the starter. If the starter needs spacing back, it won't be a problem to do.
    ------------------------------
    ST185 road barge / MZ11 forest barge / RA65 garage barge

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    What gen beams engine are you using? I have a feeling you are not using the 3sge beams blacktop from the altezza rs200, if I'm correct the oil drain on the other engines is in a different location.

  6. #6
    is the bestest Conversion King LeeRoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    Why not just use the 6 speed rather than a W58?
    Daily Driver: Red Ae93 Project: My TA22 - now with 3s-gte
    D is for Disco, E is for Dancing

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    Couple of reasons; I already have a W57 under my car and a W58 (steel plate version) spare which I plan to hook up to the beams when that set-up goes in. I plan on drifting with the set-up so I want a bullit-proof build and according other people's experience the W58 is stronger then the 6-speed. Also the 6 speed requires mod's to the tunnel and i prefer the ratio's of the W57/58 boxes.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    Quote Originally Posted by Bozu View Post
    What gen beams engine are you using? I have a feeling you are not using the 3sge beams blacktop from the altezza rs200, if I'm correct the oil drain on the other engines is in a different location.
    not even a BEAMS engine - just a lowly gen1 3SGE ;(
    ------------------------------
    ST185 road barge / MZ11 forest barge / RA65 garage barge

  9. #9
    is the bestest Conversion King LeeRoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    I guess the reason I ask is that the 6 speed is the same box that comes in S15 200SX's and there is no shortage of them copping abuse at the drift track.

    I understand having the W57 (and W58) is a good reason to continue to use a W series box but you still have work in changing the bellhousing, starter etc to suit. The 6 speed would require changing/modifying the tailshaft and gearbox mount as well as speedo drive maybe, so it would be more work and dollars in that regard I suppose. In saying that, if you can get money for your W series gearboxes and can a 6 speed for cheap enough it may be the better option.
    Daily Driver: Red Ae93 Project: My TA22 - now with 3s-gte
    D is for Disco, E is for Dancing

  10. #10
    Estranged Member Chief Engine Builder mullett's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    AFAIK the output shaft, gearbox length, speedo output etc is all the same as a W58, so it's pretty straight forward as a conversion goes...

    -RM

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeRoy View Post
    I guess the reason I ask is that the 6 speed is the same box that comes in S15 200SX's and there is no shortage of them copping abuse at the drift track.

    I understand having the W57 (and W58) is a good reason to continue to use a W series box but you still have work in changing the bellhousing, starter etc to suit. The 6 speed would require changing/modifying the tailshaft and gearbox mount as well as speedo drive maybe, so it would be more work and dollars in that regard I suppose. In saying that, if you can get money for your W series gearboxes and can a 6 speed for cheap enough it may be the better option.
    Apparently the S15 6 speed gearbox has a weakness in 3rd and 4th gear where the gears are attached by a circlip, this circlip is prone to breaking. However this is what I've read and heard and cannot speak from own experience. Perhaps this problem will not be as common on a sprinter then on a S15 as a sprinter is lighter.

    In regards to fitment of the 6-speed, it has a longer taper creating the need for tunnel modifications if you don't want to space your engine forward to much. Also the position of the gearstick changes over the W5* shifter position, if my information is correct, which means I have to cut into the floor which I prefer not to do.

    Fitting the W58 isn't a big problem as it's done before and I've been able to source a bellhousing and starter motor that will fit with minimal modifications and are cheap as. As I've already got a W57 under my car the tailshaft and gearbox mount already fit and I don't have to worry about the speedo. Saying that with the placement of the beams engine I might have to make some minor mod's to the tailshaft and gearbox member as it might change the position a bit.

    In the end there are more ways to skin a cat and I'll do it this way but I appreciate you're thinking with me!

  12. #12
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: 3sge beams with w5* box combi

    i THINK you will need to remake the mount and tailshaft for the gearbox with beams anyway mate

    i know when i did mine, the engine was a good 50 to 70 mm further back than a 4age in the bay. If you keep the engine forward, you will either run no sway bar, or a very funky one. and you will rapidly run out of room under the bonnet with the engine that far forward.

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