Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: 4agze questions

  1. #1
    working hard Backyard Mechanic
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    341

    Default 4agze questions

    Hey guys i been trying to research but cant find my answers ...i have a ae92 afm 4agze dli ok but the AFM is no longer used on my car since i have an aftermarket ecu wired in
    Question 1 is my 4agze now map sensored? also is there any other difference in the map s/c to the afm s/c besides the pulley that gives the map more power ?
    Reason is that on the dyno i pulled only 80kw atw and say if i put on a map sensored s/c will i pull a average figure of 90kw odd like most of map sensored 4agze do?

    In all just asknig if the s/c on the 4agze map, afm are same identical s/c just the map has the smaller pulley..

    if in this case i will put the map sensored s/c on my afm charger and run as good as a ae101 map 4agze? and add a nevo also

    Can someone prove me wrong on this or say its logical the way i am thinking as i cannot see why there would be a 20kw increase from a smaller pulley as my 4agze afm is now a map sensored

  2. #2
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    Hi,

    The 4AGZE with the MAP does have a smaller pulley to generate a little more boost. I'm not sure how much boost this is, however.

    Removing the AFM because you have an after market computer does not make your car MAP. You would need to remove the AFM hardware, and replace it with a MAP intake for that to be true.

    --Striker.

  3. #3
    working hard Backyard Mechanic
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    341

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    o ok my tuner said that the person before me has gotten rid of all the afm sensors etc and used ems aftermarkets,
    what other hardware is there ? so i can go check

  4. #4
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    If you are now using the EMS aftermarket, it would be up to the EMS stuff that would be installed whether you are now MAP or AFM.

    I know nothing about EMS, and what type of stuff they use, hopefully someone that knows more about this will be able to help you further.

    Sorry dude.

    --Striker.

  5. #5
    SC14'd Member Domestic Engineer nick.parker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Canterbury
    Posts
    660

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    Hey,
    The other BIG difference is that smallport (map sensored) GZEs have 8.9:1 compression. This is where the extra power comes from (in addition to the 120 instead of 125mm SC pulley). The smaller pulley gives about 1psi more boost.

    If you have no AFM your ECU will almost certainly be MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensored. Look for a rubber tube going to your ECU from the engines inlet manifold. This sensor effectively gives your ECU an 'engine load' estimate on which to base fuelling. Many different methods are used by different aftermarket manufacturers to turn this into a fuel pulse width. Some calculate air density and use this in combination with a volumetric efficiency map to estimate airflow, others just use MAP as an axis of a fuel lookup table.....Only naturally aspirated engines generally can be sucessfully 'mapped' without AFM of MAP sensors (they use throttle and RPM) even then this is not very common.

    Cheers, Nick.
    == 4AGZE SC14 Supercharged ==
    Now flogg'n the SC14 @ 18psi....

  6. #6
    Chookhouse Chooning Automotive Encyclopaedia Hen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Victoria, Mt Macedon
    Posts
    1,134

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    It sounds like the main gist of your post is "why doesn't my engine make as much power as expected". If this is true then I would suspect the tuning of the ECU. If there are no obvious problems (boost leaks, weak/bad ignition) then a good tune could be what's holding you back.

    However as Nick said, the 8.9CR of the later engines gives them some extra power.

    Hen

  7. #7
    AVGAS DRINKING Carport Converter 30psi 4agte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    S.A
    Posts
    1,457

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Striker
    If you are now using the EMS aftermarket, it would be up to the EMS stuff that would be installed whether you are now MAP or AFM.

    I know nothing about EMS, and what type of stuff they use, hopefully someone that knows more about this will be able to help you further.

    Sorry dude.

    --Striker.

    EMS have a built in MAP sensor

  8. #8
    Corolla Guy 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    I think we are all forgetting the main difference between AFM and MAP motors is the head.AFM Bigport vs MAP smallport head. The smallport head has a better air velocity, meaning the air flows faster and gives it a bit more power that way. The bigport head has less velocity due to the much bigger ports, but on the plus side it can flow much more air, (commonly the choice when going turbo) which gives it better high end power rather than low end torque from the smallport.

  9. #9
    SC14'd Member Domestic Engineer nick.parker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Canterbury
    Posts
    660

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    Yes, its a question of more outright power (on something pushing a lot more air than stock) or more low end torque for any setup. I'd definitely take drivability and low end torque for a street car. Both heads do a good job, and I dont believe that at stock 4AGZE power outputs the small ports are in anyway hindering horsepower, but they definitely are giving better cylinder filling at the low end, but I'd be curious to know how much of that is from the smaller runners, which are effectively an extension of the inlet port. At the end of the day both engines have the same exhaust ports and share all the same size valves. So ultimately how much of a difference are those port sizes going to make?
    I have a theory. Have you looked at how undersized the runners are in small port manifold (4AGE or 4AGZE) compared to the actual inlet ports on the small port head (or inlet manifold gasket?). I think maybe Toyota realised that making those runners even smaller than the smallport head gave even better low/mid torque....so I think use the smallport with a custom manifold, to get some better sized runners, and get the best of both worlds. One guy on Club4AG who did, made around 500rwhp @ 8000rpm (with a ridiculous unstreetable turbo setup I might add, before splitting his block too I might add ).

    Cheers, Nick
    Last edited by nick.parker; 12-06-2006 at 07:33 PM.
    == 4AGZE SC14 Supercharged ==
    Now flogg'n the SC14 @ 18psi....

  10. #10
    working hard Backyard Mechanic
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    341

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    Hey guys it may well be the tune but the car hammers.. some dynos just give low or high readings.
    Since then i have purchased a 175mm nevo and susing out a ae101s/c pulley .. i am just having headaches trying to find out if the smaller s/c pulley will work 100% with the afm charger and if i can use the afm clutch still or use the ae101 clutch...

  11. #11
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer mic*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    QLD
    Posts
    628

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    Quote Originally Posted by reece12
    Hey guys it may well be the tune but the car hammers.. some dynos just give low or high readings.
    Since then i have purchased a 175mm nevo and susing out a ae101s/c pulley .. i am just having headaches trying to find out if the smaller s/c pulley will work 100% with the afm charger and if i can use the afm clutch still or use the ae101 clutch...
    There is no difference between the two chargers - they are both called SC12 superchargers. They just have a different pulley/clutch mounted to the boss & splined shaft of the supercharger. They are interchangable.
    meh...

  12. #12
    back into it Chief Engine Builder
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    3,991

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    Quote Originally Posted by reece12
    Hey guys it may well be the tune but the car hammers.. some dynos just give low or high readings.
    Since then i have purchased a 175mm nevo and susing out a ae101s/c pulley .. i am just having headaches trying to find out if the smaller s/c pulley will work 100% with the afm charger and if i can use the afm clutch still or use the ae101 clutch...
    by the sound of it it has the standard ECU, so it isnt the tune thats making it hammer! yes the nevo is fine with the AFM ones. the nevo is better than the 101 ones so if you have a nevo stop looking. clutching them saves fuel, but you wouldnt want to save fuel if you want the extra power anyway!

  13. #13
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer mic*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    QLD
    Posts
    628

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    I thought 170mm NEVO is crank and "AE101" is MAP 4AGZE 120mm S/C pulley & clutch (as opposed to 125mm)?

    Either way they will work fine together & will bolt on.

    And if the ECU is aftermarket as it says in your first sentence, get it tuned afterwards.
    meh...

  14. #14
    back into it Chief Engine Builder
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    3,991

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    ment better than useing stock and 101 pulley and not worth the hassle of changing a 101 pulley.
    if aftermarket ecu just ditch the AFM.

  15. #15
    working hard Backyard Mechanic
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    341

    Default Re: 4agze questions

    kingmick it is aftermarket using ems stinger map sensor.

Similar Threads

  1. AE101 4AGZE wiring diagram Needed
    By BlueAE86 in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 28-04-2006, 12:29 PM
  2. 4agze conversion
    By reecegze in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-03-2006, 08:52 PM
  3. 4agze and sc12 questions
    By caibs in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 20-01-2006, 12:28 AM
  4. How to connect 20V alt to 4agze loom?
    By d-shiznit in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 25-11-2005, 07:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •