A bit of a project we're working on

**Doc 46** · 06-05-2006, 10:45 AM

Hi there,

I spose I should introduce myself, I've been around the forum for a while as a guest so I spose I'm a bit of a first time caller long time listener my name is Justin my brother and I have a 1986 Toyota Corolla TwinCam its done 220k is in great shape in its body with only a couple of minor rust spots. We are planning on turning the car into a bit of a club based track car with the view of competing in Dutton Rallys and weekend track days etc...

This is our plan, I welcome all (constructive) comments. We plan on doing some basic work at home and don't mind paying for quality work. We are planning on spending a total of 10-12k for the project for the essentials and i think we need a little bit of help deciding what these are. Our list is as follows but i'm not real confident that we could get it all done under the budget. This being said we are both ok for money so spending a little bit more wouldn't really kill us.

I'll start on the engine.
We are still hotly debating this, the motor has done 220k it is a 4age big port with tvis
We are either going to remove the engine and have it rebuilt with the following
Ported and polished head
At least 264 possibly 272 degree camshafts
Nevo underdrive pulleys
Efi hardware quad throttle bodies
New oil pump and fuel pump.
Remove a/c
Microtech ltx-8 engine management.(considering we are going programmable could we possibly do cams that are bigger?)
New radiator (the old ones a bit questionable)
Oil cooler

Or

Purchase ae111 20valve half cut insert 272 degree camshafts port polish head. Mostly same modifications as above

We are debating because while the motor is in great condition and runs fine (god bless toyota reliabilty) its been in the family now for almost 8 years we are unsure of how it would stand up and we are thinking that we would save money by using a half cut as its basically got all the bits we need with a newer gearbox.

Gearbox.
Use standard until it breaks with short shifter and twinplate clutch, lightened flywheel
Once it does will look at using the 6 speed box from ae111 levin will get adapter made if necessary

Brakes
Upgraded brakes and bads possibly using components doing either a superstrut conversion with twin piston calipers or possibly a complete conversion to ae111 brakes, using race brakes composite pads. Rear brakes std except for new pads

Susp/ roling stock
Full Whiteline "works kit" for an ae82.
Wheels and tires 15inch alloys with semi slick "azenzis type" r-compund rubber

Interior.
Mostly stripped, half cage, two sports seats up front.

My brother is a mechanical engineer (automotive) and has and has a few mates in the car industry that can help out I am reasonbly confident in wielding spanners but we would get workshops to be doing the majority of the mechanical work. If you have any contacts in Melbournes North East that would be helpful as well. Any comments are welcome. Hopefully we can create something fun, quick and reliable

**The Witzl** · 06-05-2006, 12:46 PM

Hey Doc, and welcome.

What's the ultimate aim you and your brother have in mind here? I'd guess by the cage and suspension mods that you intend on doing a little track work here and there?

If so, then you'll want to stick with an NA engine.
Lets run through a few things.....

You've talked a little about the engine, but dont forget the gearbox!
The C52 box your car has now is a little conservative in the gear ratio department, so either a C56 (from a 4A-GE 20V) or C156 (six spd from blacktop 4A-GE 20v) with the CV shafts those gearboxes came with is a good upgrade. I say to get the CV shafts, cos these are equal length shafts that help reduce torque steer.

The C56 has much better ratios than the C52. It keeps your little engine right up there in the revs with every gear change.
The C156 does this even better.

As for your engine... well you have options, and lots of em.

1/ Rebuild the 4age you have now
2/ Rebuild a smallport 4A-GE (aka 100kW 4age, from AE92 SX)
3/ Build a 20Valve 4A-GE
4/ .... convert like a mofo!!

In my mind options 1, 2 and 3 are much of a muchness.... if you went options 2 or 3, they'll be pretty similar in the end if you use the same gearboxes, option 1 i think would fall behind a little in the power stakes.

If you REALLY want to have fun.... then read on...

Have you guys thought much about using a 2ZZ-GE at all? Yes they are expensive, but with 140kW output from the factory and a 6speed gearbox, it'll lay absolute waste to any 4A-GE with mild cams and headwork.

Alternatively, you could use a late model 3S-GE engine and gearbox from a Japanese fwd celica. The ST202 uses a BEAMS (iirc) 3S-GE which would be pretty gun in the teeny weeny AE82!! The 2zz is still primo choice!

Get in touch with Toby Hunt of Merridian Motorsport, he's been doing a fair few 2ZZ-GE conversions of late - it's safe to say he knows where it's at!

2ZZ ftw.

**kingmick** · 06-05-2006, 01:30 PM

for 12k you might be far better of finding a club car for sale that has had alot of work done to it! as the saying goes "you never get back what you spend on them".
for example, i have a mate selling a commodore saloon car that is three races old, bare metal resprayed,ajustable suspension all round,good engine,proper designed caged, new gearbox and a spare etc etc and he wants $10k for it!
so bargins are out there but on a tight budget buy a car someone has spent $25k+ on can be the way to do it!

**The Witzl** · 06-05-2006, 01:37 PM

Good point Mick....

**Doc 46** · 06-05-2006, 01:41 PM

We did think about purchasing a complete car but are deciding to take on a project as.

1) We need to unwind after work
2) Want to be able to say that yeah, we built it, its ours.

As for the 2zz option, i'm intriguied has anyone on the forum attempted such a conversion. I imagine that most of our tentative budget would be taken up with such a conversion. But on the flip side the motor could basically be left unopened.

As for what we want from the car. We want it to be able to be driven albeit rarely as we both have other cars. We want it basically a track day car that can complete in hill climbs motorkhanas tarmac rallies etc.

We've been looking through jap import wreckers and haven't been able to find many (any) 2zz options and hence thought the blacktop mod would be the go. As mentioned the budget is flexible but the more economical we can be the better.

**kingmick** · 06-05-2006, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Doc 46

We did think about purchasing a complete car but are deciding to take on a project as.

1) We need to unwind after work
2) Want to be able to say that yeah, we built it, its ours.

As for the 2zz option, i'm intriguied has anyone on the forum attempted such a conversion. I imagine that most of our tentative budget would be taken up with such a conversion. But on the flip side the motor could basically be left unopened.

As for what we want from the car. We want it to be able to be driven albeit rarely as we both have other cars. We want it basically a track day car that can complete in hill climbs motorkhanas tarmac rallies etc.

We've been looking through jap import wreckers and haven't been able to find many (any) 2zz options and hence thought the blacktop mod would be the go. As mentioned the budget is flexible but the more economical we can be the better.

i can understand that completely! but sometime a good one comes up that you can spend the same time as you would building one looking and learning what someone that has been doing it for years has done. Then improve on that. the sallon car i told you about the owner is from a family that has been racing since the 1930's and the owners father has one bathurst twice. they are actually a relation of mine and his father now in his 70's has one of the brabham F1 cars and another car {i cant remmeber what it is } that is a 4 pot and from the 1940's that did 150mph down conrod on 5 ich wide tyres!
the nephew is now building a sport sedan so they asked me to have a look at the cage and layout to improve it.
so sometimes you get lucky and learn alot more from it buying one thats done and it can be a hell of a lot cheaper. then improve and relax looking at it and designing.
last post for the arvo, taking the young bloke to krusty demons!

**WDE_BDY** · 06-05-2006, 02:00 PM

2ZZ may push you up a class as well.

Callum

**mullett** · 06-05-2006, 03:18 PM

I'd stay with the blacktop. Bolt in, great gearbox, equal length shafts, 165hp, screaming redline. I wouldn't open it, just stay with factory everything, get a nice set of extractors and a good intake system. That way it's totally stock, mega reliability (very important).

And there's a big class for 1600cc NA cars. 1800cc and you might have more problems...

RM.

**finney** · 07-05-2006, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by mullett

I'd stay with the blacktop. Bolt in, great gearbox, equal length shafts, 165hp, screaming redline. I wouldn't open it, just stay with factory everything, get a nice set of extractors and a good intake system. That way it's totally stock, mega reliability (very important).

And there's a big class for 1600cc NA cars. 1800cc and you might have more problems...

RM.

There isn't much point replacing the extractors as the factory ones are amazing compared to the factory ones that came on the 16v. Although if you are chasing down every last kw then it may be something to consider. the secondaries are also considerably better on the 20v's aswell.

Also as the witzl said what sort of g/box are you looking at? The C56 is a great box and 3rd gear ratio is great in comparison to the C52 and is something that i would recommend to you as you will be using the car for track orientated work. the driveshafts are also different to the standard C52 ones as mullet stated. I have definately noticed a difference with them, ie: less torque steer and the car is also considerably easier to control in the wet.

personally i'd recommend the 20v over the 16v as with the VVT there is considerably more usable power throughout the rev range as i have noticed with mine (s/top AE101). However i'm unsure as to whether you would be able to keep the VVT with 272's? someone else may have an answer to this. Going by the toda website the 264's will be able to retain it but anything above you can't...

**Doc 46** · 08-05-2006, 09:10 AM

To be honest i didn't realise there was such a difference between the two gearboxes etc.. My understanding of the c56 is the following.
1) shorter gear ratio especially third
2) not all have lsd, is it easy enough to purchase one aftermarket?
3) equal length d/shafts.

Is there anything else i need to take into account. Fortunately i don't work very far from Meridian so i might head up there and speak to them about what we're trying to do.

Also a quick question noticed that there are a few different types of r-Compund tyres out there has anyone had any experiences with them. Did a track day in my car and noticed a lot of the competitors were on Advan tyres, but have noticed that toyo proxes are a fair bit cheaper.