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Thread: 4agte build questions

  1. #1
    Junior Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default 4agte build questions

    Hey guys,

    im about to turbo my 4agze in my ta22 and i have a few questions....

    Should run an oil cooler? (The car will be taken to the track occasionally, im about to install a 3 core JAR alloy rad, and i live in Newcastle where its not that hot). I want to be sure its necessary

    What size oil/water lines should i run to the TD04L? Ill probly use 200 series speedflow braided lines for all these, i dont know turbos well yet sorry guys

    Is it ok to tap the turbo water lines into the heater hoses? This is just the shortest path to the turbo, if not ill tap them from the engine water inlet/outlet pipes.

    Should i change all my intercooler piping from 2.5" to 1.5" to suit the TD04L? Ive heard doing this will decrease lag but im not sure its worth doing cos it will be expensive (in/out on intercooler is 2.5").

    Should i port the internal wastegate? Im not sure about this one, but i heard it will decrease boost creep.

    Will i need an aftermarket fuel pressure reg? (Will be running stock gze injectors and fuel rail, haltech ecu, walbro fuel pump, stock ta22 fuel hardlines).

    Its quite a list but thanks in advance,

    Andrew

  2. #2
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic cri_ag's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4agte build questions

    oil cooler would be a good addition, even just using the stock ae92 corolla setup is better than nothing.

    i think my feed is a dash 4 with a half inch drain (oil)

    ive left the stock fuel reg, and not had any dramas, depending on how much your pump flows you might need a bigger reg to be able to control fuel pressure. mine has been fine with a single bosch 910 pump.
    4agte Sprinter - 11.7 @118mph WSID
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: 4agte build questions

    Hey Mate,

    I ran a TD04L from a 2005 WRX in my 4AGZE (now 4AGTE I guess) powered KE30 for a while, am currently upgrading to a Garrett GT2560R.

    as long as you keen the cooler piping to the shortest possible length i don't see you having any real problem with lag. I ran 2.5" from the filter all the way through the cooler and up to the TB and made my full boost (15 psi) by about 3000rpm.

    Cooling lines from the heater hoses are fine (that's how mine runs) just be sure you tap into it before the heater control tap so you don't shut off the turbo water supply every time you decide you don't want the heater on.

    As for oil, i run a -4 (1/4") braided Teflon line as the feed and a -12 (3/4") return line. The return line may seem excessive but when you look at the line the ID is really not that much ore than 1/2" and ive had issues with turbo oil drain in previous turbo builds so I wanted a good drain for this one. On that I am proud to report there have been no issues with this build.

    Onto boost creep. I fitted the TD04L in stock form first up and had massive issues with boost creep. The car made 14 pound (stock wastegate pressure) by about 3000rpm as i said before and was fine until about 5000rpm. From 5000rpm to about 57000rpm the boost climbed again to about 21psi then sat there until redline (about 7800). I looked at porting the internal wastegate but it was gonna be about $200 and then there was no guarantee they could take it out far enough to completely fix my problem plus if i ever changed my turbo there was a chance i would have to do it all again. As it turns out i am changing my turbo so i am pretty happy i decided not to port the TD04L. To fix the problem i went out a bought a TIAL 38mm external gate set to 15psi, worked a treat and will continue to work a treat with my new setup.

    Lastly the oil cooler. I personally don't run a cooler but my car is just a daily, doesn't really see any real hard continuous use. On a side note to that i did fir a remote filter to it though, partly so I could get to the filter with ease and partly so it would easier to fit a cooler if i felt that it was needed, thus far it hasn't been needed. We did however need to fit one to my brothers boosted Suzuki sierra as that had lots of low speed high load work and had big issues with shearing the oil.

    Sorry about the war an peace, just thought id share my experiences on a common build. I hope I've covered all your questions, feel free to ask if I haven't or you think of any more.

    Smithy.

  4. #4
    Junior Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: 4agte build questions

    Cheers for the replies guys, very helpful.

    Smithy dont be sorry, you wrote a great reply. You deserve rep for that effort man!

    I have ended up going with braided lines with speedflow fittings all round; -6 for the water lines, -3 for the oil feed into a banjo bolt (im still unsure about this cos i dont know how much oil the turbo requires and the banjo fitting is a restrictor), -8 for the oil drain, and -8 for the oil filter relocation.

    I have plumbed the water supply into the inlet pipe on the front right of the head, and the return into the base of the alloy rad. I decided that with a good alloy rad i would not require an oil cooler, but the car is yet to be driven so i will see how this turns out.

    Smithy, i read recently on some rexy forum that boost creep is not an issue with the td04l. But what you wrote says different, i spose ive just gotta give the internal gate a chance and see what happens. Is there any other way to better control the internal gate besides turfing it out and going external? I must admit it seems weird that an external gate would be required on such a small turbo, i thought they were only for racing/big boost applications?

    I will be making the IC piping as short as possible, it will be mostly 2.5'. I tried rotating the compressor housing on the td04l to shorten the piping, but realised that by doing so the oil drain would not be facing down so i scrapped that idea. Good thing too cos the thing wouldnt come apart anyway, not matter how much i swore at it! I think ive made a good choice of turbo for my engine, what sort of power was your engine making with the td04l Smithy?

    Again, cheers for the constructive replies ppl

    Andrew

  5. #5
    Building Corollas Chief Engine Builder Cuzzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4agte build questions

    I had a td04l on my 4agte also in a ke30 funnily enough....it will bleed boost at high psi. Piping size is not a problem.
    KE30 4agte - Bullet - Rick Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by -GT- View Post
    You had an oil and plastics engine bay fire, with flames that reached at least to the roof - of course shit got hot, it wasn't burning jiffy firelighters back there.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 4agte build questions

    Hey dude, journal type turbos (like the TD04) only need somewhere between 1.5 and 2 litres per minute of oil flow measured at idle with a warm engine/oil (ball bearing turbos can survive with even less). when I fitted my turbo up I measured the flow from my oil feed and found I had 8 litres per minute. I ended up restricting the feed down by filling over the hole in my turbo -4 fitting and then drilling it out with a 1.5 mm drill bit, this gave me 1.8 L/Min. So, even with a -3 lint and banjo I don't think you'll be risking turbo oil starvation.

    As for the rest of the oil system, -8 on the remote filter is what I used but like I said in my last post I ran -12 for the turbo return. My brother and I ran a -8 on his sierra and ended up with oil getting to the exhaust via the turbine oil seal, upgraded his return and the problem disappeared.

    You can rotate both the compressor and turbine covers/housings on the TD04L but before you can you have to remove both covers and then remove the two locating pins in the core (CHRA). there is one on the cold side and one on the hot side. The pins are fitted to make reassembly for use in the WRX (correct orientation of the covers) easier. these pins serve no other purpose and work just as well removed.

    I'm not sure what other people have experienced with this setup regarding boost creep but I know mine was fairly bad. A simple port job may have be enough to fix it but like I said earlier its not that much cheaper than an external gate. I did always have in the back of my mind though that I may change to a bigger turbo at some stage though so the thought of having to spend the money a second time to port the new turbo if it had the same problem was the main reason I went for the external straight up, if I had to pay twice then I may as well have just bought an external.

    As for power, I'm not sure??? I had every intention to make it to the dyno, even had it booked in twice but the car never made it. Lets just say I couldn't keep it on the road long enough to get there. I had to can the first tune cause of the boost creep, fixed that booked it in again and then busted the diff (stock KE30, no big deal) before I could make it to the second. After that i decided to put the bigger turbo on and figured there wasn't too much point in putting it on the dyno as it would need to go back after the new turbo was fitted. The tune that the car had was just a very simple, safe road tune (read far from perfect). Even with the less than perfect tune it kept up with my mates BA XR6 turbo ute funny considering it was the turbo from a WRX and nearly a litre less in engine capacity. Even though I dont have a dyno sheet to go by i'd have to say the power would have been around the 150RWKW mark based on previous experience from past cars.

    Once again I hope this info helps, and that you have as much fun with this setup as I did. I did like the TD04L but it's time to move on to bigger and better things, I want to make 200 RWKW and i know that turbo is not up to it.

    Have fun,

    Smithy.

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