4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

[oldcorollas]

maybe they should???

all flow charts i've seen indicate blacktop is better.. but that means little..

[Cuzzo]

Hows your 4a comin along?

[KE20_4AGTE]

Hi Cuzzo
I have been buying lots of parts but I have gone with a 7A engine Black top head and these bits
Crower I beam rods (not cheap Brian crower stuff)
Arias 20V 8.5:1 pistons
Full ARP bolt set incl balancer & flywheel bolts
Pro Gram billet main caps
ACL bearings
1mm oversize valves
Springs Titanium retainers
Elec water pump
Toda cam gears

But i have been spending else where like my new Budnik M5 Wheels (19x10 & 18x7) my new 355mm rotors with custom hats Moser 31 spline axels for my BW78 among other bits

I still have to get my Kelford cams
Oil pump
Twin plate from Bazda and some other bits along with finding a builder that I feel comfortable with

Hows your KE30 going?

[KE20_4AGTE]

Cuzzo
BTW I notice you said to keep the stock throttles but I can't find 1000-1200cc injectors that are side feed and I'm not sure if the stock fuel rail will flow enough and looking at where the throttle linkage is I dont think i will fit a top feed rail and injectors in there do you have any ideas that might help me??

[Casey-G]

Lol what?


2jz's run a side feed man, shit should be easy to find. Have you tired injector dynamics or tweakit?

[Cuzzo]

Well i think with the latest parts list you've posted, you have proven me wrong on my previous posts.

That is some serious gear that you have purchased!

If your going for the power suggested before i think go custom manifold and fuel rail. That way you can run whatever injectors you want.

As for my rolla. Im not going to rush it now and just do it bit by bit. Still on the body work. Painful.

[BLK_20v]

Silvertop oil pump means you can ditch the hydraulic timing belt tensioner.... though, being 7a i'm now not sure how this would be relevant...

As for custom rails, a guy by the name of action dan has allot of experience with 20v heads etc...

[Bazda]

To clear things up a little.

I have flow sheets for both a 16v small port stock form and 20v blacktop stock form. I have sighted flow sheets of a stock 20v silvertop as well which is similar to a 16v small port.
The small port flowed 180cfm on the intake and 116cfm on the exhaust
Blacktop flows 210cfm on the intake and 140cfm on the exhaust.
This small port was then ported extensively with 1mm OS valves and cams and made 240cfm on the intake and 170cfm on the exhaust.

I started work on the 20v blacktop head and gained 30% more flow on the exhaust by putting 1mm OS valves with no porting and stock cams! imagine what happens when I introduce porting and cams. I would expect a similar gain on the intake as well. But I pulled that head out of its build as was going to cost over $5k just for the head work. Since I dont drag race now I didnt see the point as I only need 250-280kw atw for circuit use and its more than enough for what I do.

This small port head was put onto a stock 4agze bottom end 9.0:1 compression and made 410kw atw!!! on 26psi boost using E30 fuel.
Its def possible to build these engines to big power with the alcohol based fuels.

We have a good base of corollas in NZ running VERY similar setups and tuned by the same person on the same dyno.
Typically stock 4agzes with small port heads get power from 190kw atw - 230kw atw on 18-24psi 98 pump gas
Stick a 20v blacktop head on there and easily the power goes up to 240-270kw atw on the same boost levels. So many are just starting with blacktop heads as they dont have to do any work to them to get good power.

The way the silvertop head is, its not good even when ported. its okay you can still get some good power, but the results are not as good as porting a 16v small port head or a blacktop head (which no one has really done!!). I'm waiting for the right customer who wants a blacktop head ported!! as I know we can make around the 450kw mark with the right build - anyone interested??

One day I will finish the blacktop head I started, but mortgage gets the best of me so i have to watch what I spend on the car these days :S.

Also 7a bottom ends are great. What you read on the net from AGES ago mis-leads alot of people to think the cranks are weak.

Also when getting this sort of power over 350kw atw and the boost levels the stock size ARP head studs don't cut it. You will need to upgrade to 11mm studs which you can torque down to 70ft lbs.

[Shifty]

...and yet people are acting like the 260-280kw I was asking about is ridiculous.

I have some experience with a 400hp+ atw 4A corolla from a number of years ago, was still 1.6lt too and a somewhat 'agricultural' setup. If you can make 1100hp from an all-but-standard 2jz 3.0lt then a bombed 4AGE should be able to go close to half that without even trying.

[trdee]

the power you are wanting to make isnt ridiculous shifty, the limitation on boost is the ridiculous part...

interesting piece on the heads there baz, but you didnt mention the bigport head once..... have you had any experience with the bigports?

[Bazda]

I did't mention it cos I haven't tested it. As I would never go down the route of 16v any way

[Casey-G]

the power you are wanting to make isnt ridiculous shifty, the limitation on boost is the ridiculous part...

interesting piece on the heads there baz, but you didnt mention the bigport head once..... have you had any experience with the bigports?

QFT..


Also barry is there a reason you haven't mentioned the bigport head..? (edit nvmind was beaten)