4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

[oldcorollas]

30-40k to build a 4A?
since many bits are already off the shelf parts.. a 4A should not be that spendy. even good manifolds etc are pretty cheap. (plus bottom end already built?)

assuming you don't add up the cost of broken engines


edit: a well built motor with 30psi and 8Krpm peak should be in the higher 300's

[Cuzzo]

Hey Cuzzo glad to see I could make your day with a good LOL but I thought this forum was welcom to people with all kinds of budgets not just people on very tight budgets..

As for proving it theres no need as I have already put more than enough into my toys over the years and its my way of having alittle fun and I will keep doing so, I'm just here to chat with likeminded people on this forum

Not meaning to sound disrespectful but an engine like backyarders WILL cost around 30 - 40K.

If you have the ability to build a motor like that (doesnt have to cost that much if you do it yourself) then please show us!!

Oh and e85 and methanol are two worlds apart. Why not build the thing THEN tell us about it? Im sorry but theres alot of dreamers that think they'll get massive power on such a tiny motor like the 4age.

[NME308]

subscribing for possible LOLs.

Please prove us wrong but do you have 30-40K to spend on this build?

Oh dont be such a kill joy...
Don't you know that once someone somewhere in the world has made a certain power figure with a given engine every other example of that engine worldwide can achieve the same power for next to nix???

Cheers,
Jason

[KE20_4AGTE]

Not meaning to sound disrespectful but an engine like backyarders WILL cost around 30 - 40K.

If you have the ability to build a motor like that (doesnt have to cost that much if you do it yourself) then please show us!!

Oh and e85 and methanol are two worlds apart. Why not build the thing THEN tell us about it? Im sorry but theres alot of dreamers that think they'll get massive power on such a tiny motor like the 4age.

I totally agree there are alot of dreamers on the net no doubt about it and no I don't have the ability to build an engine like the backyarders (but I have an engine builder that thinks he can)

As for methonol & E85 they are worlds apart but so is my goal and that of Backyarders

But please dont forget all I was doing on here was asking a question before I go out and find a Blacktop head to let my engine builder and I decide what way we should go, thats all

[oldcorollas]

Oh dont be such a kill joy...
Don't you know that once someone somewhere in the world has made a certain power figure with a given engine every other example of that engine worldwide can achieve the same power for next to nix???

Cheers,
Jason

what.. like 200-250rwkw from a 4A? remember it wasn't that long ago that those kinds of figures were scoffed at too...

[Cuzzo]

LOL its 500rwhp, thats 370kws at rear wheels.

Mate go for it! Not sure what you would do with it all? Move the earth from under the car and have the car sitting still?

Oh since i havent added anything on topic. Go the blacktop head. Retain ITB's and look for a gt40 turbo and LOTS of nitrous..oh and auto.

[NME308]

The 4A is a 'mature' engine these days with extensive range of aftermarket parts and huge following in various circles.

Somewhat like a Chev V8 the more an engine is used and abused the more knowledge is gained on what it takes to both make power and keep them together.

Those pioneering an engines development will likely spend cubic dollars by comparison to the figure required once knowledge of weak points and modifications is available commonly. The RB30ET was a black art for many years and the domain of a few select melbourne workshops for those needing/wanting over 500rwkw. Now (and I certainly don't mean its common) backyarders have been known to achieve 1000hp from them. The oiling system in those engines has been found to require mods to keep piston 5 or 6 (I forget) onboard and a few other now more commonly known touches allow 700hp from an otherwise stock turbo bottom end.

So what I'm getting at is as long as the builder has the required knowledge of the particular engine then just about anything is possible. If the guys making the power figures you are looking for are using a blacktop head then it sounds like the gun head to me!

Cheers,
Jason

[oldeskewltoy]

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=77883 - for further "discussion"

[Casey-G]

Alright im now convinced and am bigport biased now..


I knew there was a reason i put the blutop head on my 4ag.

[trdee]

read the entire thread casey. it's not so cut and dried. but then again these kinds of things never are

[Casey-G]

You really cant compare though, has anyone ran a bigport at 30psi then swapped heads and run another series head? under the exact same conditions ect...?

I've always stood by the TVIS head and that last thread supplied has supported my ideas on that exact head... You are right though its not an open and shut case, things like this need some substantial evidence to prove one over the other.

[oldeskewltoy]

All Formula Atlantic engines were largeport. Someone may claim they have an Atlantic smallport, or 20V for that matter... well, there is NO SUCH thing.... At least not an official Formula Atlantic..

If you want to move big AIR... you need the ports.....


Btw... NEITHER bigport, or smallport are really that good

After hours over @ Loynings talking with them, and being shown little secrets here and there... I've been informed that the MAIN problem** with a 4AG isn't the port size... but the port itself... it is FLAT (horizontal) for too long. There is a wall on the 4AGE @ about 200hp N/A. They have gotten beyong that wall by adding some curved dimension to the port roof, out near the manifold flange. This change "adjusts" the 4AG port high pressure top into a mild down inclination. Think of it as a "B" on its side. The injector port is nestled between the two bumps of the "B".

For boosted applications - I think matching ALL your parts(making sure they are best suited to work together) will go further towards power production then which 16V head you use.....


** - main problem - there will be differing opinions on this, I've yet to find anyone who knows more about the 4AGE then Loynings.....

[trdee]

I agree with you to a large degree OST, and also know about the port design/valve angle being too shallow in a 4AG (or any earlier G-series head).

End of the day, you can make a lot of power with all the different variants, so just stick with whatever you've got and build that I say.

[oldcorollas]

After hours over @ Loynings talking with them, and being shown little secrets here and there... I've been informed that the MAIN problem** with a 4AG isn't the port size... but the port itself... it is FLAT (horizontal) for too long. There is a wall on the 4AGE @ about 200hp N/A.

luckily the 20V is totally different to the 16V head in that regard....
Loynings were talking abotu the 16V head right?

16V head = flat


20V head = well inclined, and much straighter shot at the valve

[oldeskewltoy]

Loynings were talking abotu the 16V head right?

They've only used the 16V heads... In fact they have yet to really delve into the 20V, having only seen one or two 20V heads