ST184 Engine and transmission swap help

[jezVTi]

Hi guys!

I just recently bought a 1992 Toyota Celica SX (ST184). It's unregistered, and has been in a bit of a crash. I got it for $450.

I've spent the last couple of months replacing body panels (thanks Warrior! ) and changing out all the worn and damaged joints and rods etc. I have no previous experience with cars, before I started this project all I had ever done was basic vehicle maintenance.

Now today, I started really digging into the car to try and figure out why the auto was so sluggish, and have discovered that it has a crack in the head gasket!

My understanding of this is that I practically have to replace the entire head of the motor, and that it's going to cost quite a bit to do.

This is where my question comes in: If I buy a newer, entire 5sfe motor and a manual transmission out of a Camry, will everything bolt up? Considering I have to change a lot out anyway, I figure it might be worth buying a newer engine, and also swapping it to manual if it's possible. Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

Pics:
As I bought it

As it stands now


Thanks in advance guys!

[jezVTi]

No one?

Hellooooooo? *Echoes*

[AdrianS]

If it's the head that's cracked, you're right, it's going to cost you $$$.
If it's just the head gasket, it's not a big deal to replace.

[Omegaman]

you will probably pick up the same motor S/Hand, cheaper than just buying the head.
then just replce the top half only in all else ok.
As for another motor type, the budget must be there to achieve decent results.

[jezVTi]

I don't know yet whether or not it's a cracked head or a head gasket, all I know is water was collecting in a couple of cylinders.

The engine in the car isn't in fantastic condition, and even if it is a head gasket it's probably just as fiddly to put a "fresher" engine in as it is to replace the gasket especially if it has to be machined. It would be the same type of motor as the current one.

Sourcing the engine shouldn't be a problem, and I can get one from a Camry for fairly cheap. Does anyone know whether the tranny from a Camry is interchangeable with the Celica tranny?

[Dale]

Camry manual will interchange with the celica as long as you swap all the engine mount brackets over, not sure about auto

[wagonist]

The manual 5S-FE should bolt directly in to replace the auto 5S in there now.

Castings on the block/gearbox are too hard (expensive) to change between models, so manufacturers change the body around them instead.

Worst case is that you may need to use your existing engine mounts on the newer stuff.

Honestly, my suggestion.
Get some pics of your current setup & some measurements.

Go to self serve wrecker & do the same for the Camry.

Check that the Camry engine has all of the same sensors as your current engine (or at least swapable)

There'll always be something to screw you up.
ie I'm putting an ST205 3S-GTE block into my ST215 3S-GTE Caldina.
The only thing the same I've discovered between the 2 engines are the bolt holes for the mounts, head, gearbox & the entire water pump. Everything else is different, yet the engines are the same designation.
If I'd gotten an entire ST205 engine, it would've fitted straight in (but would've require wiring changes)

[jezVTi]

Thanks everyone!

Excuse my "noobness" wagonist, but what do you mean by sensors? How can I check to see if it's different? If it is, how hard would that be to get around?

[wagonist]

I'm sorry, but if you don't know what the engine sensors are, then how are you planning on doing an engine swap?

Honestly, I'd be trying to find a cheap workshop to do this work for you. It isn't a hard job, but one that's very easy to screw up.

[jezVTi]

There's no huge rush to get the car done, I'm trying to do it myself to gain experience. You gotta start somewhere.

The motor and transmission would be coming out of a complete Camry, so I have access to everything: the mounts, the harness, the ECU etc. Obviously the motor and transmission needs to be switched out, do I keep all the wiring stock?

[AdrianS]

If you're doing it yourself to learn, start by pulling the head off. If the head is ok and the bores look good, just drop in a new head gasket.
Swapping a hg can be done over the weekend easily with the engine in the car, with minimal tools.

Engine swaps need more tools and space. Also, second hand engines can be tired too : I ended up stripping & cleaning my import engine 'coz it was all gunked up, which meant a full gasket kit, etc, etc.. the $$ add up fast if you're fussy.

[jwebb2876]

I can do a hg in like 3hrs. That's on a EFI converted Sigma engine though
anywho, if you don't know much surely you know someone who does? Like, your dad or an uncle or someone? Always get help if you aren't sure, as it's easy to stuff pretty much everything to do with cars up if you have no idea.
ALWAYS make sure it's someone you trust though.
When I was working at Mercedes, we had an old 380SLC come in that wouldn't turn over. Tried everything, battery, starter, wiring etc, nothing. Then we checked the oil. The gronk who owned it had put close to 20L of oil in the engine, because his neighbor had fold him to top up the oil every now and again.

[caldinarod]

I think you are doing the right thing, learning on a cheap old car, good on you for having a go!
AND what a great car to start with!

Going back to your original problem of a sluggish auto, did you clean out the gearbox oil filter and change the ATF?

Have you established whether the crack is in the head gasket or head? Have you taken the head off yet and if not what is making you think there is a crack? (oil in the coolant, coolant squirting out of the header tank, water in the oil etc). Even if you are going to change the engine it would be good experience to strip an engine which doesn't matter first.