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Thread: 3SGE Gen III into ST162

  1. #1
    is firing on all eight. Carport Converter AndyTTR's Avatar
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    Default 3SGE Gen III into ST162

    This swap is pretty straight forward as far as conversions go, but I thought I'd post up a bit of info about it so that anyone interested can get an idea of what's involved.

    Engine:
    - You will require the ST202 throttle cable (fits ST162 accelerator pedal with no dramas).

    - Gen 3 thermostat housing needs to have the ST162 thermo-switch for the thermofans welded into it.

    - The ST202 exhaust manifold will foul on the driver's side thermofan. The best solution is to go down to the wreckers and grab the front mounted thermo fan from the base model 3SFE powered ST Celica. It's a straight bolt in job. While you're there, grab the A/C piping that runs across the front of the A/C condenser and under the thermofan.

    - Despite having the same bolt hole spacing, the gen 1 A/C compressor wont fit the gen 3engine as the top fittings foul on the beefier alternator support bracket. Use the gen 3 compressor and get a new set of fittings made up by an A/C shop.

    - The sump has a triangular support for the flywheel cast into it, this will foul on the N-S crossmember and will have to be removed with a grinder / dremel or whatever you've got handy. When you can see the flywheel though the hole you've made you've just about taken off enough material to clear the crossmember.

    Gearbox:
    - The original S53 gearbox from the ST162 wont bolt up to the gen 3 as it runs a larger flywheel and the starter motor is mounted on the outboard side of the flywheel. Doing a dodgy and redrilling the flywheel bolt holes in order to run the original S53 g.box is not recommended - i've been told the 3SGE runs an off centre flywheel for balance, redrilling the flywheel will put this off centre and the results can only be bad.

    - The ST202 E153 gearbox wont go straight in. It will require the fabrication of a new top g.box mount and a pair of sleeves on the gear selector cables to stop them from sliding out. The speedo drive is also on the back of the diff rather than the top like an S5X box. You can get around this by using the mechanical drive from a AE101 g.box which has a 90 deg. bend built into it. It drops straight in, but whether it will show the correct speed is anyone's guess. Using this gearbox will also require a mix and match driveshaft setup. I've been told that the ST202 inner CV's, ST165 front driveshafts and ST162 outer CV's are the way to go?

    - Plan B is to use the S54 gearbox that is sometimes found in ST202 halfcuts. Everything bolts straight up using the original ST162 mounting hardware and driveshafts. As a bonus the gear ratios are similar to the original S53 - no long boring camry ratios here!

    Wiring loom (main points):
    - Wiring for a/c and thermofans needs to be removed from the original loom and added to the new loom.

    - Reversing lights and accessory 12v is connected on the chassis side of the st162 loom, the st202 has it on the engine side of the loom. To avoid a short circuit use the original reverse light switch wiring.

    - ST202 charging lamp fuse is on the chassis side of the loom, ST162 has it on the engine side. Probably in your best interest to wire that up to the existing fuse in the st162 fusebox.

    - Gen 3 ECU manages the a/c idle up rather than the a/c amp as per the st162. I've found it works best with the A/C signal still connected to the ECU but have the new idle up VSV (which is much larger than the ST162 valve) to the original A/C amp.

    I'll post a few pictures later on, but for the moment here's a website that i put together to help people out.
    http://members.optushome.com.au/an-d...conversion.htm

    It's been a few months since i did this, i'm sure the guys that have done it more recently will have a few more points to add which i've forgotten.

  2. #2
    is firing on all eight. Carport Converter AndyTTR's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE Gen III into ST162

    Just a few more points to add:

    Where to find a Gen 3?
    The ST202 is the easiest way to go about this conversion, halfcuts are becoming more common and they're reasonably priced as non-toyota boffins dont realise they're different to the local model. There's a few different variations out there - ST202's came with 3SFE, 3SGE Gen 3 and BEAMS engines. They also come with different gearbox, suspension and brake combinations. Gearboxes are either S54 (with 3S-GE friendly ratios) or E153 (LSD), suspension / brake combos are usually normal mcpherson strut + single piston caliper or superstrut + twin piston caliper. Ask DaHorse for more info on brakes.

    The later model SW20 MR-2 engine and g.box combo can also be used, but with that comes the added drama of turning everything around to work in FWD, lengthening the loom, swapping g.box linkages. etc. More info on that here:
    http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/3S-GTE%20Conversion.htm

    Then there's also the 3SGE powered Caldina, but I don't really know much about that one.

    Engine Mounts:
    As for the mounts, if you find a halfcut with an S54 g.box then all the original ST162 mounts bolt straight up. If you end up going for the E153 box then (from what i could gather looking at a halfcut) you'll need to make something up for the top gearbox mount. You might get away with drilling new holes in the ST162 mount bracket, but i dont think that would get past an engineer. I'm pretty sure the front and rear ST162 mounts will bolt up tho. I know of someone that's gone through installing an E153 into a ST162 that I could put anyone who's interested in contact with.

    ST202 E153:


    Note the top mounting bracket and shift-cable retainers.


    Another view showing the input side.

    Generic S53/S54 box.


    Highlighted are the bolt holes for the top mount and the front mount.

  3. #3
    Forum Sponsor Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: 3SGE Gen III into ST162

    never done a celica but I have a E153 in a sv21 camry to replace a s5?? whatever they are. The gearbox mount from the ST205 frontcut bolted straight into the camry with no modification so maybe the St185 one might work as well as I think the GT4 boxes are basically interchangable.
    Also the driveshalf combinations..As far as I know all GT4 front CV's are the same toyota part number as the 4 cyl camry ones which from the looks of it are the same as most 4 cyl fwd toyotas.

    I have seen a E153 box fit into a fwd corolla using MR2 turbo inner CV's bolted at the big coupling to a ST185 Shaft with ST185 outer CV's into the orginal corolla spine. length was perfect both sides as well, got to love toyota..

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    Default Re: 3SGE Gen III into ST162

    I tried a SV21 top gearbox mount when we were doing the conversion but it was broader than the ST162 mount and wouldn't fit. If the ST205 / 202 mount is the same as the SV21 then I dont think it will work either.

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    Default Re: 3SGE Gen III into ST162

    Some pictures to give an idea of what modifications are required to make the ST202 collector pipe mate up to the ST162 cat.

    standard ST202 pipe (aftermarket extractors, but still showing the general shape)


    modified ST202 collector


    It has been cut off after the oxy sensor mount and had a longer pipe added, is flatter and has a different angle in it.

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    Default Re: 3SGE Gen III into ST162

    link to my members rides thread on the old forum, i was writing as we did the conversion.. might be something in there that i haven't mentioned elsewhere. Some of the info is probably incorrect - if something in that thread contradicts something in this one then just assume this one is right!

    http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.p...art=0&count=60

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    Default Re: 3SGE Gen III into ST162

    From discussion in the ST162 Thread on the topic of using an MR2 engine for the conversion:

    Having an MR2 Gen 3 in the garage to compare to I'd say avoid using one unless you have to.
    - To fit the alternator without the proper fwd Gen 3 brackets you need to grind bits off the water pump to fit the original gen 1 parts.
    - There's an extra coolant outlet which faces the wrong way, you could cut and weld it i guess (or find a donor from another gen 3).
    - The fuel lines come out of the rail facing towards the front, not that bigger deal but the finished product wont look as neat.
    - The timing belt side engine mount is somehow different, i haven't seen how the guy got it to work yet. The timing belt covers are different.
    - The wiring loom will have to be re-made to get the alternator wiring on the right side and extended to reach the ECU through the firewall = $$$ unless you do it yourself.

    You will need a new gearbox. It is possible to get the original ST162 box to fit, but you have to get your flywheel re-drilled (original fly wont suit the inboard starter position) and remove the factory coolant pipes with the attached oil cooler as the starter motor fouls these. This leaves you with the problem of how to cover the hole where the cooler was. The genius that i bought this wreck off put another oil filter there - problem is that its impossible to change without removing the exhaust manifold. That and you now have 2 oil filters. Its so much easier to get the proper FWD box or convert the MR box to FWD using James' (buck_naked) excellent write up.

    Long story short, yes you can swap the engine from an MR2 cut into a Celica, but there are so so so many less hassles doing it with an ST202 engine.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 3SGE Gen III into ST162

    Driveline codes for transaxles with the sportier final drive ratio (not the economy camry ones)

    ST202 (~94 -> 95) = S54-02

    ST202 (~95 -> 96) = S54-06D

    S54 with LSD - S54-070X (incomplete code - posted by wayno on ozcelica before the forum crashed and the post was lost)

    Post 96 (face lift model) ST202 - E53-XX (still sussing out which ones have LSD and which ones don't)

    S54 ex. ST204 (5SFE engine) - S54-02A

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