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Thread: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

  1. #1
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    Hey fellas,

    Can anyone confirm what im thinking? If I put my 4AGZE (which is still supercharged) AFM inline with the intercooler piping (intake side of course)will it reduce the lag/pressure drop that comes from adding 6 odd feet of piping to the front mount?

    It seemed silly when i first thought about it but many people have heen moaning bout how the throttle body is placed before the supercharger and ic after it which is just silly if you ask me. I dont see why a sc cant feed a plenum as an intake like a turbo.

    Anywhat, opinions/thoughts on the AFM placement?
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  2. #2
    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    i dont see it being a problem. after all its still just measuring the amount of air going past it.
    ive seen it done a couple of cars before. but it was done so they could take their airfilter off for when the dragged :|

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    Official Off Topic KING! Conversion King stradlater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    Is it Vane type or Hotwire though?

    The vane type ones will cause you grief in pressurized systems.

    Plus, if you put the AFM right on the front of the supercharger, will it then mean you'll be sucking in hot air from around the supercharger rather than nice cooler air from around where it's sitting now?
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    jzx100 fan boy Domestic Engineer slide86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    the only problem you may face is that the AFM might not operate correctly.
    how will the flap react to boosted air? would it just hold it fully open all the time?? telling the ECU that its at 100% throttle.....

    Wouldnt you then get massive amounts of fueling even though it might not be at full boost...

    The reason for my thinkings is that the flap is "pulled" open by the air being drawn into the sc. if you place it after the sc, the boosted air would just hold it open all the time.....

    am i right or wrong? or do i have the wrong idea bout how you want to mount it.....
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    Official Off Topic KING! Conversion King stradlater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    Quote Originally Posted by slide86
    the only problem you may face is that the AFM might not operate correctly.
    how will the flap react to boosted air? would it just hold it fully open all the time?? telling the ECU that its at 100% throttle.....

    Wouldnt you then get massive amounts of fueling even though it might not be at full boost...

    The reason for my thinkings is that the flap is "pulled" open by the air being drawn into the sc. if you place it after the sc, the boosted air would just hold it open all the time.....

    am i right or wrong? or do i have the wrong idea bout how you want to mount it.....
    As said, Is it vane or hotwire type? If it's vane (flap) then it probably won't work. But Hotwire will.
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    jzx100 fan boy Domestic Engineer slide86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    yeah after i posted i realised......i was thinking vane type. Only cause my gze was vane.
    (not anymore, thanks to microtech)

    Hotwire would probably work tho.....youre right bout the heat also, some AFM have a air temp sensor in them, wouldnt want a heap of hot air going through it sending the ECU out
    Quote Originally Posted by The Witzl
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    Toymods Pimp Chief Engine Builder Norbie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggo
    It seemed silly when i first thought about it but many people have heen moaning bout how the throttle body is placed before the supercharger and ic after it which is just silly if you ask me. I dont see why a sc cant feed a plenum as an intake like a turbo.
    It's because the SC12 is a positive-displacement pump, meaning it pumps a fixed volume of air (in this case 1.2L) every revolution. Think about what's going to happen when the throttle is closed (or even part closed) with the blower trying to ram that volume of air down its throat.

    Turbos don't have this problem because they use a centrifugal compressor, which simply stalls when the throttle is shut.

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    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    AFM measure the MASS of the air going thru. even when pressurised, if there is no air going thru, the flap will stay closed. so as far as measuring the mass of air goes, it should be ok. the mass is still the same... hot, cold, pressurised or not.. mass is mass.

    as for pressurising..... as has ben suggested, they may not like it much.... the seals and materials usd for the outer of the case may not deal with the pressure...

    if the TB is before the SC, when TB closed, no air pumped (and bypass open) so it makes no difference,... the AFM still ses the mass goign into engine.. just more accurately..

    i think main problem will be if the AFM can handle pressure.

    if it was a hotwire type, then you may need to check it's calibration for air mass when the air temp rises significantly... hotter air = less current needed to heat wire = thinks less air = lean = boom
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  9. #9
    Chookhouse Chooning Automotive Encyclopaedia Hen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    Are you asking about throttle body placement? If so read Norbie's reply.

    Or are you talking about AFM placement? If so read everyone else replies.

    Hen

  10. #10
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer myne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas
    AFM measure the MASS of the air going thru. even when pressurised, if there is no air going thru, the flap will stay closed. so as far as measuring the mass of air goes, it should be ok. the mass is still the same... hot, cold, pressurised or not.. mass is mass.

    as for pressurising..... as has ben suggested, they may not like it much.... the seals and materials usd for the outer of the case may not deal with the pressure...

    if the TB is before the SC, when TB closed, no air pumped (and bypass open) so it makes no difference,... the AFM still ses the mass goign into engine.. just more accurately..

    i think main problem will be if the AFM can handle pressure.

    if it was a hotwire type, then you may need to check it's calibration for air mass when the air temp rises significantly... hotter air = less current needed to heat wire = thinks less air = lean = boom
    You're thinking of MAF

    Mass Air Flow meter - the hot wire type that measures the current required to keep a wire 100*C above ambient.

    AFM, the trapdoor style, AFIK shouldnt cope with being blown through. I was of the understanding that they MUST be suck-through.

  11. #11
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    Quote Originally Posted by myne
    You're thinking of MAF

    Mass Air Flow meter - the hot wire type that measures the current required to keep a wire 100*C above ambient.

    AFM, the trapdoor style, AFIK shouldnt cope with being blown through. I was of the understanding that they MUST be suck-through.
    yes, i'm thinking of AFM, the vane mass air flow meter

    how does the vane get moved? it's by a mixture of velocity and gass density.. the pressure shouldn't matter. ie, it measure the mass of the air...

    if the system is pressurised, but flow is slow, then it will still read that slow flow, cos the mass of the air going past will move the vane...

    it's the same theory for "rotameters" where you have a ball being blown up a tapered tube... the mass of the air provides the bouyancy, as happens with the vane.. just that the vane is hinged and sprung... but same idea
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    Junior Member Conversion King whatthe?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    So if this was going to be attempted then Stew, you'd recommend after IC and before TB?
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  13. #13
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    better than before IC.. hot air probably is bad for the bits...

    can it be successfully sealed? and will it pop under pressure??? guess there is only one way to find out


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  14. #14
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: Putting the AFM inline with the intercooler piping

    Thanks guys,

    Im now back sleeping in the garage with my baby and ive had a better look now. The AFM is a vane type (flap) but the space where i was thinking of placing it is wayy to small, hell i cant even get the ghey afm to fit under the bonnet as it is.

    Methinks the AFM deserves cold air...but there aint none in this engine bay
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