make rep info open to public

[tomvale13]

Yeah take mine down, I don't even own a (working) toyota atm!

If it's purely about technical nouse mine should realistically sit about 12000.



I don't care how the rep works, I'm here for the toyota's, the odd laughs, the intelligent members (there's more here than most other forums I've noticed), the events and constructive conversation on a range of topics.



toymods ftw!

[river]

Hi,

This forum has 12000+ members and, as with all gruops of people, there will always be differences of opinion.

The rep came in with the upgraded forums a few years ago, along with a more rigid sing-up procedure to limit the wookie factor. At the time is was regarded as the way to move forward and pull the forums back into line.

It's not a perfect system, but it has served its purpose quite well. We review it often at the Board meetings and it is a point of much discussion with the impending forum software upgrade.

The forums are ostensibly another facet of the Toymods Car Club, and although we try and give as much free reign as possible, we do have to step in and moderate at times... unlike the Rubber Fetish site I moderate, where anything (and I mean anything) goes.

Which reminds me... Smokey, your order has arrived and MrSnuffles will be delivering it to you this weekend.

seeyuzz
river

[Hiro]

Why should that be restricted to club members only? Personally, I feel this is elitist and is indicative of the way some members view this forum, as their own and not a public forum. Dodgy sellers are shut down pretty damn quick on here and all credit goes to the mods for doing so.

It's not "elitist", it's a forum set-up, run and funded by the club and its members. I see no problems having the classifieds section limited to club members only (then again, I _am_ a club member), yes it would mean a lot of for-sale stuff would disappear but also would mean that a lot of n00bs that just want to flog stuff would disappear too.

The fact that it is a licensed club is one of the things I like about Toymods, it sets it apart from a lot of the other "clubs" out there which are just a forum and nothing else - Twincam constantly has problems with people signing in and flogging absolutely anything (even had a few problems with people selling dodgy/stolen goods) without making contributions to the forum (some people have hundreds of posts but have only ever made those posts in For Sale threads), TOCAU is currently experiencing a big problem with spam-bots, and Rollaclub is being eroded by people who think they know more than they really do or get pissed off when someone tries to apply moderation to their "right to free speech".

[richzx]

So how the hell does having rep stop ANY of that??? It doesn't hence it's a wank. I don't have a problem with people signing up and selling stuff because if it's stuff any of us want and the price is right then so be it. As it stands anyone can sign on here post a bunch of shit and get 30 rep ponts and start selling away. If someone joins up to sell stuff, we buy it because it's good or cheap or both and then we don't see that person again, how is the forum harmed? Who loses in this situation? No one does. Dodgy sellers have been on here and there will be more in the future and all we can do is shut them down as quickly as possible.

[Viper]

It's not "elitist", it's a forum set-up, run and funded by the club and its members. I see no problems having the classifieds section limited to club members only (then again, I _am_ a club member), yes it would mean a lot of for-sale stuff would disappear but also would mean that a lot of n00bs that just want to flog stuff would disappear too.

I’ve been following this for a few days now, and this reply has warranted some input from me.

As been a member since the last few months on the old-forums, I welcomed the change when the new ones were set up. Requiring much more detail when registering is a great idea. If someone does not (at the best guess of the admins) enter correct data, they don’t get access.

Restricting the classifieds to members only, will drive newcomers away. Sure, it will force alot of the current members to paid-membership (me included), meaning more money for the club, but less items will be posted, less people will be visiting looking for parts, and ultimately less new members will result.

It also may be possible that some members simply cannot afford the ~$100 for yearly membership. I know that during my Uni years, simply saving the money for parts what a challenge.

Perhaps introducing a new Classifieds Rep, where you can only make a new post to sell an item once you have been given rep for purchasing. This way you don’t get randoms selling garbage and 'trusted' members can only sell items in the forum.
Much like the way the current rep works, where you cannot make a new post without 30 points.

I don’t see any problem with 2 rep systems. General Rep points as they are now, and a Trading Rep. This way people can easily see if someone is active in the forums and also if they are new and flogging off random crap.

It would give to clear distictions for forums users aswell. Some known as 'Traders' and others as 'Techies'.

Well thats my view on it anyway

[RONA]

Toymods is only $50 a year for initial membership & $40 for renewals.

[Hiro]

So how the hell does having rep stop ANY of that??? It doesn't hence it's a wank. I don't have a problem with people signing up and selling stuff because if it's stuff any of us want and the price is right then so be it. As it stands anyone can sign on here post a bunch of shit and get 30 rep ponts and start selling away.

I didn't say that rep had anything to do with it, I was responding to your comments that Toymods is "elitist" beacuse it restricts access to certain parts of it's forum to club members only.

And I hate people who sign up purely to sell things, regardless of whether or not what they are selling is useful or not. The classifieds are a service provided by the club (as is the whole forum, actually), and someone who doesn't give anything back to the club should be restricted in the services that they receive for free.

If someone joins up to sell stuff, we buy it because it's good or cheap or both and then we don't see that person again, how is the forum harmed? Who loses in this situation? No one does. Dodgy sellers have been on here and there will be more in the future and all we can do is shut them down as quickly as possible.

The forum is harmed because it gathers a reputation as a place where things can be sold for free, as opposed to a paid service like eBay or newspaper classifieds. It is more likely to attract dodgy sellers too because it's easy to pick a random address/name/number out of a phone book to use as details, and then when the hounds come calling they're lead up the garden path (some forums now requires a phone verification to stop this).

[RONA]

IMO Classifieds should still be open to everyone as someone in WA or QLD really doesn't have the opportunity to attend alot of events & are quite often members of local social clubs. However they contribute alot to the tech section on toymods & can quite often offer rare parts for sale that in general benefit the toyota community.

Sure people like JCMO, CLG, Cruzida etc are members of Toymods but I wouldn't hold it against them if they weren't due to their location. Essentially the only benefit of membership for them would be increased forum access as they can't attend alot of events & don't benefit from the sponsors who are mainly NSW based.

The counter argument to that is you shouldn't be looking at the benefits of what is gained from membership but more at what you can do for the club to make it better.

Personally my membership pays for itself multiple times over simply in discounts I can get in Sydney from Brake parts to servicing or even cheaper dyno runs & rissole sandwiches at the dyno day

[richzx]

I didn't say that rep had anything to do with it, I was responding to your comments that Toymods is "elitist" beacuse it restricts access to certain parts of it's forum to club members only.

And I hate people who sign up purely to sell things, regardless of whether or not what they are selling is useful or not. The classifieds are a service provided by the club (as is the whole forum, actually), and someone who doesn't give anything back to the club should be restricted in the services that they receive for free.



The forum is harmed because it gathers a reputation as a place where things can be sold for free, as opposed to a paid service like eBay or newspaper classifieds. It is more likely to attract dodgy sellers too because it's easy to pick a random address/name/number out of a phone book to use as details, and then when the hounds come calling they're lead up the garden path (some forums now requires a phone verification to stop this).

So YOU hate that people can sign up and sell stuff for free but I don't! The service they give to the club is possibly the part that a club member needs and can't find anywhere!
What eveidence do you have that the forum will gather a reputation as outlined above? We already can sell stuff for free, I buy and sell on here and it's cost me nothing. How is it more likely to attract dodgy sellers? Once again, it's already a free service and dodgy details in their member submission will be weeded out, as is already done. I don't have a problem with even stricter member identifiaction processes if it helps us all out but some people don't bother to use false details because they know the cops will do very little about it.

Please not Hiro, I strongly respect your technical knowledge and your contribution to the forums and your information is invaluable, I just disagree with what you're saying about forum membership, for sale and rep points. As for being elitist I said SOME members so there are those on here that I feel that cap will strongly fit and I'm not insinuating in any way that you are one of those.

[o_man_ra23]

The classifieds argument will be debated till the cows come home (after jumping over the moon). Requiring tech rep (which I think should be limited to Tech, General Car and Member's rides) means somebody who is here to purely flog things off will be stopped. In saying that, perhaps there should be slightly tighter rules on what can be sold by people with lowish rep?? Selling a subwoofer and amp set perhaps should require more rep, whereas selling a guard for a KE10 should require very little rep (though there are some RA28 parts being sold which shouldn't be allowed to be sold). Of course this would need to be somewhat user moderated, as the mods would simply not be able to police such a policy on their own, but I think there are enough people who agree with the general Toymods philosophy that a change like that could be implemented.

Toymods is a club based on common interest, with a forum based on tech. Unfortunately it is a reality that the classifieds is a new member attractant, and the club will need to take this into account with their policies as new members should be encouraged, and some of the things they sell are of a huge benefit to paying members, and members who contribute well in the Tech side of things.

River, does your rubber fetish site happen to know of a rubber manufacturer who might be able to re-manufacture the xA2x liftback roofline seals?? Or do they just do dildos??

[o_man_ra23]

What eveidence do you have that the forum will gather a reputation as outlined above?

That's how myself and many others saw the old forums.

Evidence given, QED.

[RONA]

So YOU hate that people can sign up and sell stuff for free but I don't! The service they give to the club is possibly the part that a club member needs and can't find anywhere!

Rare parts are the minority exception.

Tonnes of ppl simply sign up to forums to sell common at batshit Vault Crystals Chromies which are the ugliest fucking rims known to man.

Classifields should be restricted but not to club members only. The current system of post numbers & rep is pretty good. I've bought & sold the bulk of all parts I've needed for cars over forums. The trouble is the 10% of stooges out there ruin it for 90% of the genuine users.

Some ppl are buying & selling cars trying to make profit or just simply buying cars stripping them and flogging parts in attempt to make money. These people are essentially running a business so they should be operating like one ie sponsoring the forum to sell goods not just raping it for a classifieds section.

[Hiro]

So YOU hate that people can sign up and sell stuff for free but I don't! The service they give to the club is possibly the part that a club member needs and can't find anywhere!
What eveidence do you have that the forum will gather a reputation as outlined above? We already can sell stuff for free, I buy and sell on here and it's cost me nothing. How is it more likely to attract dodgy sellers? Once again, it's already a free service and dodgy details in their member submission will be weeded out, as is already done. I don't have a problem with even stricter member identifiaction processes if it helps us all out but some people don't bother to use false details because they know the cops will do very little about it.

I don't hate that people can sign up for free and sell stuff, I just hate that people can sign up and sell stuff without contributing to the forum or club in any other way. As is said in the Classifieds posting rules:

The board were tired of the previous forum being used as a free "Tradingpost" by too many people, & as our main focus is now to be a technical forum, posting priveliges have been introduced depending on your reputation status.

As I said earlier, other forums which I belong to (none of them registered clubs like Toymods) which offer free classified sections often attract people who sell things but contribute little or nothing else to the forum. Twincam.info is a prime example of this, on many occasion there are users who sole activity is posting For Sale threads, often items which are completely unrelated to the purpose of the forum itself (I've lost count the number of times For Sale threads have been posted for Commodores, Pulsars, POS Geminis and more, from "members" who have never contributed to the forum otherwise. Lax moderation can't account for all of it)

There are a few ways that a reputation about the classifieds can be garnered - a free place for buyers to find that special thing that they've been searching for, a free place for people to sell things to like-minded enthusiasts that might not sell on a more broadly-focussed place like eBay or newspapers, or a free place for people to exploit and sell without having to go through the costs of something like eBay or the papers. I agree that restricting classifieds etc to weed out the exploiters does impact the first two, but sometimes compromises do have to be made. And whilst new people are attracted by the classifieds, they are also attracted by the wealth of technical knowledge in the forums, and that kind of reputation doesn't tend to attract free-loaders, because the simple act of acting as a knowledge-base benefits the whole forum, not just the people who ask the questions.

Anyway, this is getting sidetracked from rep points to classifieds posting priveleges.

[river]

Hi,

The good thing about the rep, even as it is often poorly used, is it empowers the forums members to add or subtract from another persons rep. Admittedly, this can be used for wrong reasons, but the rep system allows some form of self-administration by the collective. Dunderclumps get slammed, and good tech posts/information gets rewarded.

Rep in non-car is something we hope for, but (playing devils advocate) there are some good threads (such as the Housemods one) in that part of the forum, and someone should be given rep if they've answered a question that benefits and assists someone.

It's a can of worms.

The actual Car Club has less than 100 members. These members, along with forum sponsors and money we get from events is used to keep both the forums and the actual car club going. The forums support over 12000 users, with about 100 per month getting added.

There are 8 board members who, in their spare time do the following..... tech support the forums, monitor the forums, do the club minutes and the appropriate liason with legal/business registration groups, organise events and cruises, do the club financials, add/delete forums users, historic plate registration and liason with RTA over various matters, try and resolve selling issues, merchandising, and any other thing that is required to keep the club and forums operational. This is all volunteer work, but we do it 'cos we love our cars, the club and the forums. I know there are things that irk people and can be done better, but, given the few who keep it all running, I think we're doing an okay job.

seeyuzz
river

PS: Oman, I'll find out for you about the franger rubber for the old Celicas. I think a nice glow & vibe, clit-tickler Ansell or Four Season window rubber would certainly be something different.

[o_man_ra23]

Some ppl are buying & selling cars trying to make profit or just simply buying cars stripping them and flogging parts in attempt to make money. These people are essentially running a business so they should be operating like one ie sponsoring the forum to sell goods not just raping it for a classifieds section.

Some of those people are uni students who genuinely have a technical reason to be here, but have to do things such as strip cars to make enough money to buy food/celicas. Unfortunately it is difficult to categorise people into those who are dismantling to just get by, and those who are doing so to try and rape Toymods members of their hard earned.