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Thread: Thermal Wrap...

  1. #1
    :O Conversion King JZA70 R's Avatar
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    Default Thermal Wrap...

    Wondering what peoples experiences/opinion's with this stuff is on turbocharged vehicles... and more open mindedly, in other areas other than wrapping exhaust headers and turbine housings...

    I LIKE the idea of thermal wrap (header wrap) and have been wondering if it would be effective wrapping my INTAKE pipes leading to and from the turbos... My guess is thermal wrap slows thermal transfer so if i was to wrap my intake/intercooler pipes which are easily heatsoaked then in theory providing there is cool airflow constant within them i will reduce heatsoak of the pipes and in turn reduce intake temps...

    On my supra i have an elaborate cold air intake setup to the turbos, and then your standard intercooler pipes to the intake manifold. (a lot of pipework to get HOT - see pic below) ALL of this gets too hot to touch once the motor has warmed, and i know its hampering performance to a degree. (excuse the pun )

    Im thinking of purchasing a large roll of header wrap off ebay and wrapping all intake pipes to the intake manifold, and my twin dumps pipes to the end of the down pipe. if i think its feasable to wrap a portion of the turbine housings and or manifolds ill do so too.

    Thanks.








    JZA70|R / 12.45 @ 111 mph.

  2. #2
    The Aberrational Chief Engine Builder Andrew162's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    your car came sans the bonnet?

    I've heard of arguments for and against thermal wrap, but for me I'm more of the opinion that thermal wrap has a finite life span, and I've seen how ugly it can get when it's old and tattered. thermal wrap works by keeping heat in the exhaust pipes supposedly increasing torque/response through keeping the heat in the pipes (ie. not losing it through heat dissipation). I'm more into HPC'ing pipes as I've seen people use it for intakes and exhaust components, working on the thermal principles you suggest. costly, but it lasts.

    my suggestion is if you've got such a hardon for thermal wrap, use it for the exhaust sections but for the intake maybe HPC would be a better idea.
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    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    the question is where does the heat come from...
    ar ethe pipes being heated from within? or are they being heated by the underbonnet temps?

    your theory is sound, and as fro as getting old and tatty, you are meant to spray the tape afterwards to seal the fibres in... not good to have any kind of fibres floating around..

    there is much better stuff aroudn than the ebay fibreglass tape, but might come at a cost.

    however, it might work if they are being heated from outside, and you slow the heat getting to them. it will work.

    as for the turbine and manifolds/dump... if you get cheap tape, it might melt... it can start to melt as low as 600deg C.. which is red hot or less... so then you have a horrible gooey glassy mess....
    for exhaust stuff, best solution is to coat the inside of the pipe... same theory as the intake.. seperate the heat source from the pipe. outside coatings are just to protect other components from the hot parts...
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
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    Toymods Pimp Chief Engine Builder Norbie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Wrap can be good but make sure you get the good quality stuff as mentioned. HPC is better though, if you can afford it!

  5. #5
    :O Conversion King JZA70 R's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    My intercooler pipes are already ceramic coated (they are mild steel) but with the medium coat that can polish up... apparently the best coat is a matt black or brown finish but obviously looks crapola.

    The stuff on aussie ebay is from "High Energy" which is a very reputable brand name...

    http://search.ebay.com.au/search/sea...rap&category0=

    Thanks for the input guys, gives me something to think about...
    JZA70|R / 12.45 @ 111 mph.

  6. #6
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Quote Originally Posted by JZA70 R
    The stuff on aussie ebay is from "High Energy" which is a very reputable brand name...
    http://search.ebay.com.au/search/sea...rap&category0=
    thats the stuff i used! (bought from autospeed ages ago)...

    thats also the stuff that melts at 600ish (i stuck it in a furnace at uni)
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
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  7. #7
    :O Conversion King JZA70 R's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Ok maybe its not suitable for turbochargers then? ...Should be on the label or something.

    Might get in contact with the company...
    JZA70|R / 12.45 @ 111 mph.

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    Junior Member Domestic Engineer
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas
    thats the stuff i used! (bought from autospeed ages ago)...

    thats also the stuff that melts at 600ish (i stuck it in a furnace at uni)
    Don't you think its more a quality issue though ? As I've seen others brands (industrial) live on Turbo Exhaust manifolds.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Quote Originally Posted by abently
    Don't you think its more a quality issue though ? As I've seen others brands (industrial) live on Turbo Exhaust manifolds.
    no, i think it is more a material issue.. it's not like there was a lack of quality control, they just specced a cheap material that would work for NA manifolds.. which is what it is designed for.

    "industrial" they use low temp wrap in industry too.

    i put the above mentioned wrap into a 1000deg furnace, and then measured the temp where it started to melt (and stick to my alumina tube ) with a thermocouple...
    i was not impressed it melted so soon. (sorry.. went over it's glass transition temperature)

    some othe rmaterials can survive at much higher temps... but not the normal stuff exhaust wrap is made from.
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas
    some othe rmaterials can survive at much higher temps... but not the normal stuff exhaust wrap is made from.
    got some really nice stuff down here. we had the rear housing white after a 30sec hold @ 22psi7800rpm (if the car is tuned properly they dont have a prob with it) and it lived and is still on there to this day.

    ill send you some to test if you want


    cheers
    linden

    ps. as for the black hpc looking like arse, what do you think wrapped cooler pipes look like?
    Quote Originally Posted by WHITCHY
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  11. #11
    Founding ****** Automotive Encyclopaedia Mos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Quote Originally Posted by JZA70 R
    apparently the best coat is a matt black or brown finish but obviously looks crapola
    Serious? Ever seen it? I quite like the black look (my headers are black) - it's very inconspicuous and doesn't stick out like dogs' balls like the wrap does (while screaming "look at me officer" ).
    In terms of performance figures I haven't measured temps around the place yet. Obviously turbo applications will have higher temps but the coating seems to do a very good job without other shielding (the shields were supposed to happen but I'm now thinking they will be overkill - never a bad thing but not completely necessary).

    I'm wondering what's better - wrapping or shielding (assuming it's already coated). I'm thinking wrapping a heat source keeps the heat in it, potentially heating other components in contact with the heat source (ie head) as everything heats up - heat would only really be removed from the system by other things that heat up and get cooled - whereas shielding with plenty of airflow will stop other components from being heated by radiation and the airflow between the shield and heat source is removing excess heat, reducing the amount of heat available to heat other components through direct transmission, potentially keeping *everything* cooler...

    Based on these thoughts, I'd suggest shielding anything that's a heat source, provided airflow can be directed inside the shield, and wrapping anything that is likely to heat up from engine bay air. Does it make sense? (at 4am..?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Roadrunner
    ps. as for the black hpc looking like arse, what do you think wrapped cooler pipes look like?
    Completely agree - wrap looks very amateur (for lack of a better expression)... coating looks professional

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas



    for exhaust stuff, best solution is to coat the inside of the pipe... same theory as the intake.. seperate the heat source from the pipe. outside coatings are just to protect other components from the hot parts...
    An exhaust guy I get my pipe and flange's from said that no ceramic coater he has delt with could guarentee coating applied to the inside of exhaust manifolds and turbine housings, because if any of it did come off, i could damage the turbine wheel. It would be the ideal way to coat a turbo manifold and housing, tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas
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  13. #13
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    coatings are applied to the turbine blades of jet aircraft, as well as the inside of the combustors and the fuel nozzles...

    i'm sure a coating is possible... but for things like plasma spray and electron beam deposition, you need direct line of sight... (and bulk $$)

    no coater would want to guarantee against turbo failure.. because turbos can fail from so many things
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  14. #14
    Forum Sponsor Conversion King
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas
    coatings are applied to the turbine blades of jet aircraft, as well as the inside of the combustors and the fuel nozzles...

    i'm sure a coating is possible... but for things like plasma spray and electron beam deposition, you need direct line of sight... (and bulk $$)

    no coater would want to guarantee against turbo failure.. because turbos can fail from so many things
    have to share the love

    ive had many an exhaust coated and to this day havn't had it peel off yet but i supose it would depend on who coats them.

    cheers
    linden
    Quote Originally Posted by WHITCHY
    Prefer someone around the Sydney area but will travel a few hours for a good box!

  15. #15
    Lord of InterpretiveDance Chief Engine Builder tomvale13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thermal Wrap...

    Had my exhaust mani wrapped: car started sounding like a magna one day: took the wrapping off and voila: mani-crack city.

    Probably had nothing to do with the wrapping though.. there were no loose fibres or anything as previously mentioned..
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