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Thread: W58 into TA22 Celica

  1. #16
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Quote Originally Posted by lilcrash View Post
    Ok to use the w58. You can use a bellhousing from the ga70/gz10.

    But yes you can just use the j160 from the altezza.
    So, just to spell it out to me, the Altezza box will fit my engine? That's really good news as I can pick one up for very little money. The positioning, crossmember and propshaft are fairly easy to overcome. I guess I would use the Altezza clutch fork and slave cylinder and spigot bearing?
    Cheers mate, feeling better already!

  2. #17
    king & queen of cheese Domestic Engineer lilcrash's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    The is200 runs a j160 gearbox behind a 1gge engine, any car with a g series motor has the gearbox you want.
    Looking for a new toy. If you have something 18r powered let me know.

    RIP, where ever you are :- 1974 celica, 3tgte and 186.5hp at 6500rpm

  3. #18
    king & queen of cheese Domestic Engineer lilcrash's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Just remember the rs200 runs a 3sge so the gearbox is different. Has to be an is200.
    Looking for a new toy. If you have something 18r powered let me know.

    RIP, where ever you are :- 1974 celica, 3tgte and 186.5hp at 6500rpm

  4. #19
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Quote Originally Posted by lilcrash View Post
    Just remember the rs200 runs a 3sge so the gearbox is different. Has to be an is200.
    Cheers mate, I've been looking at IS200 boxes over here and they have all come from a straight 6 with the G engine so I should be ok.

    Does the pilot bearing in the flywheel fit? Clutch plate?It all sounds too good to be true!

    I'm also wondering if I can change the fork over to R/H side by fitting a new pivot point so that it keeps it away from my 4 branch manifold.

  5. #20
    Bull now in china shop! Domestic Engineer NME308's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianGT View Post
    I'm also wondering if I can change the fork over to R/H side by fitting a new pivot point so that it keeps it away from my 4 branch manifold.
    Yes...

    http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/sho...=1#post1407186

    It can no doubt be done neater but mine worked!

    Cheers,
    Jason
    3TC Compound Turbo 1976 TA23 - Members Ride Thread HERE
    479RWHP on 50psi and 70psi hasn't broken her at the track!

  6. #21
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    NME308;1581715]Yes...

    http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/sho...=1#post1407186

    It can no doubt be done neater but mine worked!

    Cheers,
    Jason[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for that link Jason! Seeing it done makes it easier to understand. Looks like it does the job!

    I am going to go the W58 route simply because I already have a W58 box.
    I found an adapter plate at 3TC. Garage.com that bolts a W58 to a T50 bellhousing and doesn't alter the geometry so that original parts can be used.

    It just needs a new clutch disc with a bigger centre which is available for the W58 spline/3Tc flywheel.

    http://www.euroexportinc.com/3tc/com...ng-99530-1620c

    http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1137

    My mate is going the J160 route after I told him about them fitting his 2Tg's. He rallies a TE27, TE71, TA40 and all run 2 Tg's of various tunes. The j160 has really close ratios which will suit his cars.

    I'll keep you posted as to how it all works out on both ventures.
    Brian

  7. #22
    Toymods Vice President Chief Engine Builder TheToyman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Brian,

    The Bellhousing from behind a 3T-GTE/W55 is the one you ideally want but are not easy to find. Thankfully you can use any W55/57 or 58 from behind any of teh 1G engines tho, just like the J160 they are a bolt up fit. Only issue is the clutch slave cylinder changes sides.

    Using the T50 bellhousing will limit you on clutch options but for an N/A package this is not to big an issue. Your clutch options will be dictated by what flywheel and bellhousing you end up using. For N/A I personally like the Fidanza Flywheel. Its nice and light but your Nanna could still drive the car. Its for a 3TC Ace, Part number 130381. And I prefer to use the ARP Flywheel bolts - part number 203-2802.

    The TA22 uses a 190mm clutch disc, but the 3TC powered T18 ran a 200mm friction disc/cover and it should fit inside your T50 bellhousing. It will easy fit inside the W58 or J160. So all you do is get the Pressure plate for the 200mm clutch (example part number, Clutch Industries R800-567) and then get a Friction disc to suit a Hiace/Hilux etc that is 200mm but has teh required the W58/J60 spline size which is 21 Teeth x 29mm. The pressure plate and disc are both off the shelf items so cheap as chips.

    Throw out bearing will depend on what clutch fork you end up using.

    For your mate with the J160, easiest solution for him is to use same as above but he needs the Pivot ball, clutch fork and bearing carrier out of a W55 / 57 or 58 "Supra" Box. The J160 one is all wrong for use behind the 1G or T series Flywheels. I learnt that the hard way with my 1G powered RA28. He will also want to ditch the IS200 Slave cylinder as it is a bigger bore than than his Master cylinder will work with.
    1971 2T-B Celica TA22 ST.
    1973 2T-G Celica TA22, aka "The Unicorn".
    1975 2T-G Celica TA27 GT
    1976 2T-G Celica TA23, aka "The Colonel".
    1985 3F Auto FJ62 Landcruiser
    1989 7M-GTE MA70 Supra, aka "The Poopra"

    History: Rods Classic Celica Sampler thread.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Quote Originally Posted by TheToyman75 View Post
    Brian,

    The Bellhousing from behind a 3T-GTE/W55 is the one you ideally want but are not easy to find. Thankfully you can use any W55/57 or 58 from behind any of teh 1G engines tho, just like the J160 they are a bolt up fit. Only issue is the clutch slave cylinder changes sides.

    Using the T50 bellhousing will limit you on clutch options but for an N/A package this is not to big an issue. Your clutch options will be dictated by what flywheel and bellhousing you end up using. For N/A I personally like the Fidanza Flywheel. Its nice and light but your Nanna could still drive the car. Its for a 3TC Ace, Part number 130381. And I prefer to use the ARP Flywheel bolts - part number 203-2802.

    The TA22 uses a 190mm clutch disc, but the 3TC powered T18 ran a 200mm friction disc/cover and it should fit inside your T50 bellhousing. It will easy fit inside the W58 or J160. So all you do is get the Pressure plate for the 200mm clutch (example part number, Clutch Industries R800-567) and then get a Friction disc to suit a Hiace/Hilux etc that is 200mm but has teh required the W58/J60 spline size which is 21 Teeth x 29mm. The pressure plate and disc are both off the shelf items so cheap as chips.

    Throw out bearing will depend on what clutch fork you end up using.

    For your mate with the J160, easiest solution for him is to use same as above but he needs the Pivot ball, clutch fork and bearing carrier out of a W55 / 57 or 58 "Supra" Box. The J160 one is all wrong for use behind the 1G or T series Flywheels. I learnt that the hard way with my 1G powered RA28. He will also want to ditch the IS200 Slave cylinder as it is a bigger bore than than his Master cylinder will work with.
    Thank you for such an in depth reply!

    There's been a change of plan in that my mate John is using my W58 box and we have purchased a steel adapter plate from the States that allows the use of the T50 bellhousing. So he will be using a clutch like the one you suggested and his flywheel ( Fidanza) and slave cylinder. He's building a car to do the East African Safari next year and needs a strong box so I parted with my W58! I'm kind of regretting it!

    I will be the one using the J160 box which I have already purchased.
    I can get the clutch plate and pressure plate no probs but your comment on needing the W58 clutch fork, pivot ball etc. has me wondering! Fortunately I kept the W58 bellhousing with fork, bearing and pivot ball. Why do you use those instead of J160 items?

    I know I will have to relocate the slave cylinder to the drivers side because my exhaust manifold is too close to the gearbox/engine and thanks to your info I will use my T50 slave cylinder.
    The J160 gearbox has been delivered to John's premises where I will be doing the conversion so I can't actually see it right now but does the bellhousing interior have a provision for fitting the pivot ball to the other side? Is there a blank or something that can be tapped out?

    I need to gather as much info and parts before I do the job as i have to drive 350 miles in the car, do the conversion and drive home! Fortunately there is a propshaft place close to my mates who will make me one overnight so that side is taken care of.

    Many, many thanks for your info.
    Brian

  9. #24
    Toymods Vice President Chief Engine Builder TheToyman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Brian, I don't recall there being any obvious places you could relocate the Pivot ball on the other side of the bellhousing. Unlike the W series the J160 Bellhousing is also part of the box, You cant just unbolt it.

    You need to use the W58 Pivot Ball, clutch fork and bearing carrier because the IS200 flywheel is a big thick fucker of a thing. If you use the J160 Clutch fork and bearing assembly you cant get it to throw far enough forward to disengage your clutch. And the pivot ball change is because the pivot ball on a J160 is a bigger Diameter than the one in the W58. So you need the ball that matches the fork.

    You sure your Exhaust wont clear ?

    Oh and slave cylinder bolt spacing was from memory same as the Slave Cylinder for an SA63 celica, but I could be wrong on that, its been a while. I dont think your T50 one will bolt up tho. You will have to check that out.

    Your biggest issue with the J160 over the W58 will be Bellhousing height, gearbox length and Shifter position. The box is much bigger than a W58.

    I stole this off the net for you:


    You may need to love the top of your tunnel a lot more than you happy with. The remote shifter also sits up really high on the back and it sits a long way further back too (It hangs out the back of the box). A J160 into a TA22 is not a swap for the faint hearted - They are a tight fir in a 28 or 23 (have done both). A W58 swap in any Classic Celica is much less involved.

    This image will give you some idea of the shifter issue you will have in a TA22 with a J160. If you happy to do a "little" cutting and resheeting you will be fine. They are a lovely box. But it wont be a quick swap. Oh and the Gearbox mount, its also nothing like the W58 item and brings with it some challenges of its own. All doable of course.



    Oh and the J160 has an electronic speedo, so you need a manual speedo gear assembly out of a W58 too to run your Speedo cable.

    Note: Anywhere I have written W58, you can of course also use W55 or W57.
    1971 2T-B Celica TA22 ST.
    1973 2T-G Celica TA22, aka "The Unicorn".
    1975 2T-G Celica TA27 GT
    1976 2T-G Celica TA23, aka "The Colonel".
    1985 3F Auto FJ62 Landcruiser
    1989 7M-GTE MA70 Supra, aka "The Poopra"

    History: Rods Classic Celica Sampler thread.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Hi Rod, firstly I am really appreciating the time you are taking on my behalf. I really do appreciate it and I have done as much reading up on it as I can on here and elsewhere.

    Right! The pics of a J160 I have seen on here ( as above) all have the starter motor and clutch cylinder on the opposite side of the bellhousing to the T50. Our J160's are the opposite hence the need to turn the fork around. I just know it won't clear the exhaust tubes.
    Secondly, the bellhousing on the J160 looks HUGE and yet I'm told that it bolts on to my engine block. I'm sure it does but it looks massive against the T50!! I see what you mean about loving the tunnel out, I had no idea it was that much loving!!
    I can get around the shifter position and gearbox mounting.

    I can also get around the speedo drive as I can steal it from the W58 I sold to John. He doesn't need a speedo!

    I've gone down this road now and I'm wishing I hadn't. The adapter plate is on it's way from the States to make a W58 go in very easily!

    Thanks for your help,
    Brian

    Edit: Is the bellhousing shown above for the J160 to fit the 3S engine? Been thinking too much.....
    Last edited by BrianGT; 08-09-2014 at 05:50 PM. Reason: information

  11. #26
    Toymods Vice President Chief Engine Builder TheToyman75's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Hi Brian,

    The pic above of the three gearboxes I stole off the internet, I am not sure Which J160 is pictured. The bellhousing boltspacing for the G series and T series engines do interchange. So it will bolt up to the engine just fine. The bellhousings looks a lot bigger becaause it is. It stays higher and wider for a lot longer so it can accommodate 6th gear.

    The slave Cylinder sits on the low side of the box so you may get lucky with it clearing the Exhaust.

    For the fitment in my TA22, the Box section that runs across the car (Just behind the shifter in that pic and the same box section the seats bolt too) Has been remodeled to be more of a triangle underneath just to clear the Shifter mechanism when its in 2nd/4th/6th.

    I have fitted a J160 to A 22, 23 and a 28. They are an awesome gearbox and I would fit one back into a 23 or 38 in a heartbeat. Not sure I would ever do it to a 22 again tho, Ask me again after I have driven it tho . I couldn't get enough of my 28 once I had it sorted. They shift so so nice. You will love it, but it is a lot of cutting and thumping to make to fit.
    1971 2T-B Celica TA22 ST.
    1973 2T-G Celica TA22, aka "The Unicorn".
    1975 2T-G Celica TA27 GT
    1976 2T-G Celica TA23, aka "The Colonel".
    1985 3F Auto FJ62 Landcruiser
    1989 7M-GTE MA70 Supra, aka "The Poopra"

    History: Rods Classic Celica Sampler thread.

  12. #27
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: W58 into TA22 Celica

    Thanks again Rod!
    Craig (ddeane) has also told me what a great box they are so between the two of you I am now ready to give it a good fight in getting it in there!

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