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Thread: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

  1. #1
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    Hi all,

    Well today was supposed to be the big day for emissions testing for the 1g RA28. Cleaned everything up this morning and started on my way from Hornsby to Port Botany in the sweltering heat. Got to Gordon and noticed that the temp had crept up to around the 90 mark. Suddenly the car started loosing power under acceleration and was surging and then it lost 95% power all of a sudden

    Pulled it over to the side of the road in some shade. The car was idling and the temp was around the 90 - 95 mark. Sat it there for awhile and let the thermos run for a bit and it cooled back down to 81. Anyway hoped it was just a once off hiccup and went on my way. Not pushing it real hard at all. Anyway made it through the city and out the other side to Port Botany after a short stop in North Sydney. Made it out to the other side of the city and the temperature crept above 90 again. It then started carrying on and lost all power again. Didn't have much choice but to limp it through 3 - 4 sets of lights, pissing everyone off as I went. Finally pulled into the RTA with the temp sitting at 100 - 105 and steam pissing out everywhere. You can imagine they didn't let me on the dyno, not that it would have actually made the run.

    Anyway so to describe the problem a little more the motor looses all power but doesn't stall. It will idle fine but when you take off the motor won't rev properly and it sounds like just the turbos are spinning. It nearly feels just like a really really bad clutch thats slipping but the motor doesn't rev (kind of like a limp mode). I have an excel radiator in the front with two spal thermos sitting behind it (10" and a 12" that pull a fair bit of air.) I haven't cut any of the front panel out of the car so there is an inch of radiator thats being blocked but I was thinking the thermo on that side should still suck some air through

    Not sure if it makes any difference but I do have an apexi avcr wired and plumbed up. Initially I thought it was a boost problem but I tried the two settings i've got setup and also turned the boost control off which would only leave the solenoid to fail but in that case it would either revert to letting the air flow through or blocking all air and causing major boost spiking. Either way why would it do this when the engine temps reach above 90 deg and are these really going to be the symptoms of it failing

    Ah crazyness. I made it back to the city where a mate with a 4wd and a car trailer picked me up after sitting in a clearway for 2 hours :S. I got it back home and ran it up and down my street and it seemed fine again. Boosting properly etc and felt fine.

    Any ideas anyone? I'm guessing it all comes down to a heating problem somewhere but where do I start.

    Another quick question. If fuel was detonating too early what kind of symptoms would be present?

    Oh and another thing while we're at it. WHY the hell won't my motor idle below 1150. If you retard the timing it'll idle at 800 but as soon as you go to set the timing correctly it won't sit below 1100 at the min. I've tried adjusting the idle down but to no avail.

    stidnam

    *edit*

    Some pictures from todays depressing experience



    Last edited by stidnam; 16-01-2008 at 10:26 PM.

  2. #2
    ---------HO00NS---------- Chief Engine Builder IN 05 NT's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    ur 1g is cursed dude!..... honestly have no idea what its doing now that your saying its driving fine again now,
    you checked the levels again yet? no mixing of fluids?

    i got no idea......will be interesting to see what others say

  3. #3
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    Yeah totally cursed man. Fluid levels are ok, oil and water seem fine and don't seem to be mixing. Even the residual water in the motor seems to have cleared up now.

    Anything below 80 degrees on the temp gauge the motor is fine. Makes perfect boost and is nice and drivable. Get into the high 80s and then 90+ and the car is going no where fast.

    Going to compression test it when I get a chance but yeah I don't know what to do next. Don't want to waste money on another motor if this one is fine and fixable.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    thermostat working or present? if water flows too quickly thru the system, it wont stay long enough in the radiator to cool down.

    no air leaks in the intake piping post AFM? (high idle) or is aux-air valve clean

    pull a spark plug or two and check for signs of detonation - also you should get a sound like small steel balls bouncing furiously around inside a steel box, a sort of furioous clicking sound.
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  5. #5
    Fuel Economy Warrior Carport Converter Vios-GT_07's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    try retard timing first, then let it idle at 800 rpm... then bump up the timing to its original place.. what happens then??

    vote 1 for thermostat stuck wide open, hence over-heat.. or could be something a bit more serious like your ignition i.e. coil, plug wires etc etc having weird problems that causes your car to run lean during extremely hot days, or a matter of your timing marks are a bit off, which can explain both the idle problem and the over-heating...
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  6. #6
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    Sounds like fuel evaporation, ( boiling ) whats the fuel pressure like, are the fuel lines close to the exhaust, or getting heat transfer of something, can they be insulated ..
    Try hooking up a fuel pressure gauge next time its a hot day ..

  7. #7
    Hopefully soon a 5S-GTE Chief Engine Builder MWP's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    Quote Originally Posted by thechuckster
    thermostat working or present? if water flows too quickly thru the system, it wont stay long enough in the radiator to cool down.
    Thats a myth that is very much un-true.
    Water flowing too quickly will not cause a car to overheat.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    my old GZ20 soarer had similar symptoms. Turned out to be the crank pulley had heaps of play in it causing the timing to go out and it would start to get hot and loose all power.
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    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    Thanks for the replies guys.

    The thermostat was replaced along with the water pump, timing belt and engine seals so thats brand new.

    AFM is connected with the original plumbing the the breather hose is connected properly.

    Idle valve has been pulled off and cleaned previously

    Haven't pulled any spark plugs yet but what will I be looking for as a sign of detonation. If it has been detonating then what kind of damage have I done. Should I be disbanding this motor if thats the case?

    There was a kind of fluttering sound yesterday but I thought that might have been the apexi soleniod. Could it have been that the thing was detonating due to timing, got hot and the engine went into limp mode or something?

    Ok I did have a timing light on me yesterday and went playing with that. I did actually retard the timing and had it running around 0 degrees at 800. Then bumped it up to where it should be taking into account the extra rpm and then couldn't get a idle of 800 back again. Though in saying that the car will sometimes drop down and idle around the 700 - 800 mark but then jump back up to 1200.

    When I put the timing belt on I checked those marks multiple times. Everything looked to match up. Pins on the cam shafts are in the centre, crank key was at the top of the crank and mark on pulley was at 0. Is it possible that it all looks like it lines up but its still a tooth out somewhere?

    Ok fuel evaporation hey? I do have a section of fuel line that runs near the exhaust as I went with a side pipe instead of my original idea. I was a little worried over that so I had heat wrapped the exhaust in that area.

    stidnam

  10. #10
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic VasH's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    theres a sensor of some sort under the plenum, which the plug fell off on my 1ggte and caused similar issues to what your describing, no power and the turbos still winding up and high idle. Its a PITA to get to but its like the only one under there so check it just incase.

    Although mine wasn't overheating but it was really cold night when it happened and i only had to go about a 1k to get home so it might not of had the chance.
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  11. #11
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    did you try to set the timing right originally? short T1 to Earth to lock ECU timing to 10 degrees and then rotate dizzi so you align the timing mark to the 10 degree mark on the harmonic balancer.

    0 degrees at idle is way too much retarded - if the timing is too retarded, you'll end up with excessive exhaust gas heat and the engine overheating.
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    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic Hash_ra23's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    whats your fuel setup like?

    I hear the vl turbo pumps fail under heat from hot fuel returning to surge tank?
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  13. #13
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    Ah ok I didn't realise you could do that. I had just previously looked up the manual which said set it to 10 degrees when the rpm was at 800 +- 50.

    I wasn't running the engine at 0 degrees at 800rpm. Thats just where it wanted to sit at that rpm. I pushed it up to 15 deg to compensate for the 1200rpm. Was that totally the wrong thing to do .

    My whole assumption of what has happened is that my timing has been out. Its gotten too hot then maybe one of the knock sensors has kicked in and the ECU has just retarded the timing, hence loosing power and maybe adding to the heat problem?

    When I got the motor someone had been screwing with the dizzy. It had been pulled out and put back in misaligned. Maybe theres something still really wrong there.

    Hash - Yeah I'm running a vl pump with a pierburg lift pump. Could be an issue but I think there has to be something else there as well.

    stidnam

  14. #14
    Toyota fanatic Grease Monkey Gttwinturbomk3's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    If your timing is out it wont matter how hot the engine gets there will be instant power loss, but in saying that maybe its just slighly out and needs to be adjusted just a wee bit?
    But that shouldnt effect it when it gets hot!

    Im thinking more along the lines off your pulley, like previously mentioned in this post!

    when the pulley starts to slip under load it effects the water pump from working properly hence the temperature rises. They at first only slip a wee bit and slowly get worse until they fall of like mine did! Im not 100% sure that it is definitly the problem but it sounds very similar to symptoms that ive experienced with my pulley getting loose in the past!
    Does the bottom crank pulley look like it has a slight wobble in it? Also how many ks has the motor done? They usually go in between 175,000 and 200,000 ks.

  15. #15
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1ggte getting hot then loosing all power

    picture of plug from first cylinder. Doesn't really show much. Just googled and guess I'm looking for "little black specs" on the porcelain. There were some black specs but they rubbed off. Gather all that plug says is the things running really rich.

    Last edited by stidnam; 17-01-2008 at 05:51 PM.

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