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Thread: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

  1. #1
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    Hi

    I am finalising a bit of research on coilovers before I buy some sleeves and I have a question on how the sleeve and the strut join is welded.

    I have 2" Outer Diameter (referred to as OD from now on) struts and am looking at using proper 2" internal diameter (referred to as ID from now on) sleeves ie the koni ones from importparts. I will call these an interference fit sleeve.

    How exactly is this welded all together when using interference fitting sleeves? Do you weld the join in the tube & make it grind it flush before fitting the sleeve which seems pointless or as in the pic below do you just fit the sleeve and rely on the top and bottom welds locating the sleeve onto the strut to keep the two strut pieces in place vertically and the sleeve itself to prevent any sideways bending of the strut caused by separation at the non weld strut join.




    Alternative a slightly larger ID sleeve could be used to allow for a proper weld on the joined section of the strut tube as in the below pic.



    I am leaning towards using the non welded join with the 2" ID sleeves to get an interference fit and only welding the sleeves in place to the strut as in the first picture. Is there any flaws with this?

    Thanks
    Stidnam

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    Hopefully soon a 5S-GTE Chief Engine Builder MWP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    Quote Originally Posted by stidnam
    I am leaning towards using the non welded join with the 2" ID sleeves to get an interference fit and only welding the sleeves in place to the strut as in the first picture. Is there any flaws with this?
    Why skimp on strength when you can do as in your second drawing with not much more effort??

  3. #3
    i wrote the Automotive Encyclopaedia roadsailing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    just to clear up a few things:

    the sleeves are NOT an interference fit! they will have a good 0.2 or more mm clearance all around, otherwise you wouldnt be able to get the bastards on!

    i have heard of people not welding the sectioned struts back together, and this is kinda ok in theory, as the only real load in this direction will be form the springs pushing the wheel down and when you jack up the car, personally i wouldnt take the risk. it will make it easier to get the sleeve on if your cuts arent straight though, but this isnt really a good thing, just a cover up for a dodge job!

    when i did mine i got a guy at work to weld them together (my weldings not all that flash) then linished the welds down until the sleeves slipped over, then stich welded the sleeves on over the struts.

    I had to use a die grinder to clean up the insides of the strut tubes, as the weld bead penetrted throgh.

    EDIT:

    simple version, do it like the second pic, but use the "tighter" fitting sleeves, just grind/linish/file down the weld bead so it fits over nice.
    like to drift? live in victoria?
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    formerly shinybluesteel

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    AVGAS DRINKING Carport Converter 30psi 4agte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    I agree /\/\/\/\

    Have you searched this though ??? There has been numerous threads on how it is done.

    I would be welding the strut together and linishing it for sure if you are shortening the strut !

    By the way like shiny says....... You will prob need to grind the inside of the strut because the welds will penertrate. This is really needed when you use bilstein shocks as the P36's just fit as it is and after welding can cause all sorts of dramas !

    Trust me i know first hand... there is some pics and info of a bit of the problem i had after welding and getting the insert to fit.


    Is there any reason why you dont want to weld the middle ??? Is it because its hard to align perfect ??

    You can align it no prob by finding a piece of pipe with a 2 inch ID ( like your threaded slevevs )
    What you do is grind / cut / drill with a hole saw a section of the pipe away so that when you slide the pipe over the strut you have a see through section exposing the join of the strut you want to weld.


    You then tack the strut though your make shift alignment tool. You will have to linish the weld slighly straight after so that you can turn the pipe around to tack the other side of the strut. Once you have tacked it remove your piece of pipe and weld the strut

    P.s you can take ANY play that the sleeve may have on the strut out with pieces of coke can wedged in between the sleeve and the strut ( they make good shims and are .004" thick just for reference )


    http://www.toymods.net/forums/showth...=strut+bending



    Under stand my jargin ??? Im hopless at putting shit into words !


    EDIT: just made a pic....



    P.P.S --- You can also align the strut from the inside with the correct size pole /pipe but the only down side to this is that it can become welded to the inside of the strut when tacking it. Unless you use something that cant be welded like copper or brass
    Last edited by 30psi 4agte; 22-11-2007 at 11:21 PM.

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    But I have no carport? Carport Converter merc-blue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    I do a few sets of "coilovers" a week, just to keep stocks up as the guys bash there cars around quite abit.
    Best way to do it, is cut the strut to your length, grove the edges and weld it on we have jigs to make sure its straight, then grind the bead back and with the paint removed from the strut the sleve will slide over it all. all you need is a a few short welds we do about 30mm on 30mm off only at the bottom as getting the spring seat and lock ring on is a bitch if you have welded the top. and if you ever bend it and want to salvage the sleeve its much harder. welding the top isnt required, if its a good weld it will be fine

  6. #6
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    the correct 2" ID sleeves fit on old Toyota 2" strut tubes OK once the paint is cleared off. welding with a neat bead is no problem and I use a TIG. I've not found it necessary to groove the strut tube, but that wont hurt if done carefullly..
    there is always some shrinkage around the weld, so dont use a real tight fit strut cartridge. 1mm clearance is heaps
    I dont cut the tube as it wont pass an enginners inspection here, but rather re-thread the top. I've done heaps.

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    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    Yes I did search for this info and have read numerous threads on coilovers. They just didn't go into detail on this area when using what I though were interference sleeves.

    The only reason why I suggested to not to weld the join was because I was going to mill the ends of both tubes level (got access to a mill at work) so that they would fit together perfectly and then the sleeve would hold it all together nicely. This was assuming that the sleeve was an interference fit which would not have left room for a weld unless something like below was done which would be hard to get perfectly straight.



    As the 2" sleeves are not an exact interference fit then all is well and I'll just get them tig welded together and then fit the sleeves.

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Forum Sponsor Conversion King
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    just put a prep (ie a V )where you wish to weld it then put 105amps of tig weld on it using triple dioxidised steel rod. the weld should penetrate sufficiently and just linsh off the top of the bead if you have to.

    i try to do it 50mm from the top that way if you get too much peno it can be dieground easily and having it so close to the top wont give it to much area to distort the tube from the weld pulling.

    cheers
    linden
    Quote Originally Posted by WHITCHY
    Prefer someone around the Sydney area but will travel a few hours for a good box!

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    Not a patch on a Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    I don't know anything about anything but I will ask all the silly questions...why cut the strut 'mid' way to shorten it? Just to keep the original threaded top? Why not shorten it at the top and rethread it? Or, as T3 have done, machine a gland nut combined with a spacer that positively locates the short stoke shock further down inside the strut?
    RA23
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    i wrote the Automotive Encyclopaedia roadsailing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    if you use a spacer from the top, it limits your available bump travel by the amount you have "shortened" it, which on most short stroke shocks would be severe.

    re threading is fine, if you can get a tap the right size or lathe big enough to fit a strut in. cut shutting is just easier.

    personally i think the join should be right in the middle of the threaded sleeve, for strength against bending loads.
    like to drift? live in victoria?
    www.vicdrift.com

    now targeting: targets

    formerly shinybluesteel

  11. #11
    But I have no carport? Carport Converter merc-blue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    yeah if you have access to the equiptment than rethreading is fine, but if you dont most people have access (or can get it done at a reasonable price) with a mig and saw.

    The big spacer style gland nuts defeat the reason for having a short stroke shock

  12. #12
    Boobs!!! Automotive Encyclopaedia Stefan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed




    You want welds like these. (sorry, couldn't help myself).

  13. #13
    Backyard Fabricator Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    it's not hard to weld like that with a TIG.

  14. #14
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    those are some nice welds

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    But I have no carport? Carport Converter merc-blue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coilover sleeve and strut welding info needed

    tidy but from the pictures doesnt looks like you got proper penetration into the strut tube

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