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Thread: W58 Version Comparisons

  1. #61
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by rodi
    my motor puts out 347hp 520ft lbs so very torquey i have on my floor 1 remote shift supra steel plate, pulled out cos noisy in 1 2 3, 1 w56 steel plate same 1 steel plate w58 stripped 3rd. w58 still in the car, i don,t think it has anything to do with the plate cos the gear they break is 200mm away from it, i think the problem will be a combination front bearing lay shaft bearings and the bearing between input and main shaft, also imput shaft flexing, i,m in the process of getting the imput shaft ground out to accept a high load bearing instead of the std needle rollers+ high load bearings in the rest, soon let you know
    Please post the process in detail if you can with pictures, I think we would all like to see the progress with this.

  2. #62
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic rodi's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    For those that haven,t seen one broken 1 to 5 are gears note 3rd stripped, 6 is the intermediate bearing i'm trying to beef up to support the gearset, 7 is the main shaft i think is flexing causing the 3rd gear to break, the highest loaded gear is 1st right next to the steel plate but they don,t seem to be a problem, if the plate flexed 1st would be the one to let go, check the size of the lay shaft dont think thats a problem, if it was a bearing problem they would have to have a heap of play which would be screaming in 1 2 3 5 considering the case hardening is only a few thou thick you would think it would be through this a long time before you stripped a gear, any thoughts?
    Last edited by rodi; 16-04-2010 at 09:41 PM.

  3. #63
    doctor ed Conversion King ed's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    judging by the failure in third, the only logical thing i can think of is either the material just cant hold the tourque, of the shafts are flexing in the middle of the bearings as they try and push each other apart?

    i imagine cryo'ing the gears would improve things to a certain extent

    cheers
    ed

    PS - rodi, if you ever feeling junking the remote shifter supra w58, ill take it - need a box to whack a whole new short ratio gearset in
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  4. #64
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic rodi's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by ed_jza80 View Post
    judging by the failure in third, the only logical thing i can think of is either the material just cant hold the tourque, of the shafts are flexing in the middle of the bearings as they try and push each other apart?

    i imagine cryo'ing the gears would improve things to a certain extent

    cheers
    ed

    PS - rodi, if you ever feeling junking the remote shifter supra w58, ill take it - need a box to whack a whole new short ratio gearset in
    i don,t think coating the gears will help, they get extracted not worn out, i think we have to support the main shaft somehow, my supra box is complete lasted about 4 tanks of fuel and got noisy in the lower gears, once i figure it out ill do them all

  5. #65
    doctor ed Conversion King ed's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    cryo'ing isnt coating, its material hardening

    i know a lot of the serious 4wd/rock crawler guys cryo their diff gears and the failure rate drops significantly
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  6. #66
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic rodi's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by ed_jza80 View Post
    cryo'ing isnt coating, its material hardening

    i know a lot of the serious 4wd/rock crawler guys cryo their diff gears and the failure rate drops significantly
    i raced off road for 20 years so i,ve seen my share of broken gears, my view is that the gears are seperating and no amount of expensive lubricants, coatings hardening etc will solve the problem, may help but not fix

  7. #67
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    Never seen them break 3rd like that before?

    All the ones I have seen or heard of or broken myself have been the forward most gears in the box, which are used for all gears except 4th.

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  8. #68
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic rodi's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by DX20VT View Post
    Never seen them break 3rd like that before?

    All the ones I have seen or heard of or broken myself have been the forward most gears in the box, which are used for all gears except 4th.

    theyre are 3 3rz lux's near me al making over 400atw and they all break 3rd, that gear is 4th and never seen that before but it is the hardest working gear in the box, what gear were you in when it broke?

  9. #69
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    From my experience they break 2nd or 3rd and then the primary drive at the front . mostly V8 stuff ive seen .
    Dave

  10. #70
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by rodi View Post
    theyre are 3 3rz lux's near me al making over 400atw and they all break 3rd, that gear is 4th and never seen that before but it is the hardest working gear in the box, what gear were you in when it broke?
    those gears are not 4th, there are no gears for 4th,
    4th gear locks the input shaft to the output shaft and is direct drive through no teeth.
    which is why when it breaks those front gears you have 4th gear only.
    Those gears are in use in every gear except 4th.


    Interestingly enough my car does them at the end of 3rd just before the chage to 4th,
    which is where my car make the most power, as i dont get to 7500rpm or more in 5th before the braking zones.
    The other car we used to run a w box in before the hollenger always did it in 5th at the top of the hp curve,
    but still broke the input shaft to lay shaft gears and was left with only 4th gear.
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  11. #71
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic rodi's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    DX20VT all the boxes i've heard of breaking are in 3rd at high revs but this is the only one i've opened up. could be breaking 3rd or "4"th, A THOUGHT FOR EVERYONE could it be a combination of 2 things, 1 mechanical force causing separation of gears or 2 hydraulic pressure of the gears not being able to clear the oil at high revolutions,
    09 to 05 hilux hilux with w58s are rev limited to 5500rpm, cure for this could be as simple as a low viscosity oil, any thought welcome??????? as they seem to break at the other end of the box from the plate i think this is not a problem

  12. #72
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    hey guys, i just bought one W58. it has a "Traction Control Sensor" mounted about 30cm ahead of the shifter hole. any one came across one like this?

  13. #73
    Is a Chief Engine Builder wilbo666's Avatar
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by CHB View Post
    hey guys, i just bought one W58. it has a "Traction Control Sensor" mounted about 30cm ahead of the shifter hole. any one came across one like this?
    Yep,

    MA70 I think

    Uses reverse gear as the trigger wheel if I am correct

    Cruzida should know more

    Cheers
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  14. #74
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    I noticed on the ma70 w58 the input bearing is 20mm wide and the 93+ w58's the input bearing is 23mm... could this bearing be used in the older w58 trannys?

  15. #75
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    Default Re: W58 Version Comparisons

    Rodi: i have heard of people running 30w oil in the w58 tranny to help it last. Do you have any updates on your bearing upgrades?

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