ke 15 sprinter questions.

[bomber]

hey guys, as soon as i manage to sell one of the cars in my shed (62 morris ute) im going to be bringing a 69 ke15 sprinter home.

the basic plan of attack is put in the small port map sencored 4agze and 5 speed i have sitting in the shed, along with a fair bit of engine work. but we'll worry bout the motor later. then stick in a real big sterio, do the interior etc up rather well, suspension, brakes, paint, etc.

it will begin after i finish my current project car, a 73 lj torana. now i dont know much about jap cars, toyotas, or anything like this, so sorry if i ask some dumb questions. what i am is very mechanicaly inclined, i can weld, i can paint, im very good at making things fit where they shouldent go, i can do some upholstery work, and i have all the tools at home required to do the jobs. the torana has consumed around $12000 so far, i have just spent over $7000 on the gearbox and diff alone. i have hardley started building the proper motor yet. i wont be afraid to spend the same kinda money on the rolla.

what im curious about atm is suspension, diff, and brakes.

now im not to clued up on these things, i've only had a real quick look at the car, but from what i can see we have pissy looking makky strut front end, no sway bar, miniscule brakes, tiny diff leaf rear springs and miniscule brakes. this will change.

i want the car to handle. i've tryed doing research but cant really find any info on them. the only decently modded sprinter i've been able to find is that orangy one with the ca18 in it, and i cant find any contact details for the owner. because the car will be registered we cant go choppy choppy to much.

*so what fits?

*do later model front struts/hubs/brakes bolt in by any chance?

*or what will fit with minimum mods?

*can you put bigger brakes on the standard struts along with some tinkering in the shock and bigger springs?

*iffnot then what can i do? i would like atleast a 250mm disk rotor on the front. bigger is always better. the rear im not sure yet, will probably depend on the diff and what fits.

*i'll probably run a vh44 remote booster hidden somewhere to keep it neat, any hints?

*what diffs are comonplace? i dont mind having it modded to hell to fit, so what recomendations do you have? and what ratio's should i look at?

*rear leavs, hmmm, what can i do here? do they handle like ass? i was thinking atleast custom rear springs (got a place local that can scratch build them) and a panhard rod to keep the diff from moving side to side, but i would really like a four or five link rearend with coilovers. has anyone tryed this?? sounds hard even to me, and i like a challenge.

*can you get koni adjustable shocks to fit? got them on the rana, there great.

*whats the standard mastercylinder like? useless?

i need a collapsible steering colom for road worthy with that motor, do they have one? (sorry i didint think to look)

i have contacted some road worthy blokes and they said that unless i can manage to take the brakes completley off a car, so front, rear, and mastercylinder, and bolt htem on without mods, i'll need an engineers cert. so looks like ima be talking to an engineer because i dont like my chances. so while im onto them i could bring up some front and rear suspension ideas that you guys give me and see what they say.

thats probably enough questions for now guys, cheers for any help you give me
bomber

[oldcorollas]

1now im not to clued up on these things, i've only had a real quick look at the car, but from what i can see we have pissy looking makky strut front end, no sway bar, miniscule brakes, tiny diff leaf rear springs and miniscule brakes. this will change.

i want the car to handle. i've tryed doing research but cant really find any info on them. the only decently modded sprinter i've been able to find is that orangy one with the ca18 in it, and i cant find any contact details for the owner. because the car will be registered we cant go choppy choppy to much.
2*so what fits?
3*do later model front struts/hubs/brakes bolt in by any chance?
4*or what will fit with minimum mods?
5*can you put bigger brakes on the standard struts along with some tinkering in the shock and bigger springs?
6*iffnot then what can i do? i would like atleast a 250mm disk rotor on the front. bigger is always better. the rear im not sure yet, will probably depend on the diff and what fits.
7*i'll probably run a vh44 remote booster hidden somewhere to keep it neat, any hints?
8*what diffs are comonplace? i dont mind having it modded to hell to fit, so what recomendations do you have? and what ratio's should i look at?
9*rear leavs, hmmm, what can i do here? do they handle like ass? i was thinking atleast custom rear springs (got a place local that can scratch build them) and a panhard rod to 10*keep the diff from moving side to side, but i would really like a four or five link rearend with coilovers. has anyone tryed this?? sounds hard even to me, and i like a challenge.
11*can you get koni adjustable shocks to fit? got them on the rana, there great.
12*whats the standard mastercylinder like? useless?
13i need a collapsible steering colom for road worthy with that motor, do they have one? (sorry i didint think to look)
i have contacted some road worthy blokes and they said that unless i can manage to take the brakes completley off a car, so front, rear, and mastercylinder, and bolt htem on without mods, i'll need an engineers cert. so looks like ima be talking to an engineer because i dont like my chances. so while im onto them i could bring up some front and rear suspension ideas that you guys give me and see what they say.

thats probably enough questions for now guys, cheers for any help you give me
bomber

geez, got questions??

1. do you have the disc brakes? these cars have mac struts with tiny springs, because most of the weigth is taken by the transverse leave spring . no swaybar, but K-mac make one that kind of vaguely fits.. maybe try whiteline or other...
they also have A-arm, so there is no radius rod... this will probably need to change for serious braking.

2. with some choppy (1 new hole in chassis rail each side for cross-member, spacing is different) and addition of radius rod mounts at front, you can adaptt the KE20 front end.
KE10 is skinniest of all rollas, so it's a bit tough.

3. KE20 have the same 200mm brakes. the KE30/55/70 brakes and calipers fit (218mm) but are not a huge improvement. with KE70, the SEA version (old bolt pattern of caliper mount to strut.. ie the square pattern) fits, but normal KE70 does not. KE30 and 55 are bolt on if you change disc, caliper and bracket... use KE20 hub if you don't have discs now.

4. minimum mods? not much. for serious braking ytou would want to get stronger stb axles/bearings anyway...
some say there are datto/nissan struts that fit easily into KE20, so if you went with the KE20 normal front end, change to the datto struts (R30? R31?) and then do the normal datto upgrades.. not a bad option.

5, you could, but it depends how much braking you will do.. the A-arm might not be the best for toe-in changes during braking,,, the radius rod style front end will be better.
shcoks in KE10 are 1" longer than KE20/30, so they can be made to fit with a spacer or strut shortening..
also KE10 has too much droop and not enough bump standard... so you need to add more bump anyway.

6. S13 struts and 280mm 300ZX discs with 4pots? rear, depends on diff.. no reason not to have big discs...

7, with such a light car, you may not need boosted.. especially if you run the much larger brakes. fitting a booster might actualyl make the brakes too touchy. there is not much space in engine bay... you could roue it into cabin, but not much space there either

8. KE10 is skinny. adding a bit of track would be good. S, T, F and G diffs are common, in ascending order of size/weight/strength. you mght get away with an S or T series, if you are staying NA. an F with atorsen centre would be nice. people HAVE fitted G series under there, so it is possible if you want a big heavy rear that won't ever break.
you could also look at BW diffs, but being banjo style, and LSD's not being so great.. might not be best option. F with trutrac?

9. yes, kinda. you can do the usual tricks with leaves,and a panhard/watts would be great i made new packs with a second big leaf, but when lowered, the spring geometry is not great... you don't really want blocks in there...

10. sure it can be done... a pain, but would be the best option.. there are plenty of pre-made bits for various cars that could be used to make the top links int he floor... would need to reinforce well since they are not so beefy in that area.. might be able to use the leaf mount for one body mount tho.
need to strengthen the shock towers to take force of springs too... good time to go coilover in rear for space saving. (for exhaust and the like.. and take out wheel well and fit tank there for lower weight)
i would like to try this, but keeping a KE70 width, which increases track by about 100mm, so check with engineer about that legality, or use bigger offset rims to reduce it a bit...

11. you can get koni reds for the front, and tokicos, btu dunno abotu adjustable.. it all depends on what sturts you run.. i figure you will change them, so somethinglike S13 would easily have adjustables rear will be custom too, since the KE1x shocks mount different to others...

12. i think it is 11/16, single circuit. if keeping standard corolla size brakes (up to KE70) you can swap for Galant (GA-GD) which are dual circuit and either 11/16 or 3/4... but with 4 pots or similar, you will need more fluid, but unboosted should have agood firm feel but not be too hard. saves space too..

13. no, they are solid. BUT if you kept the KE10 front end, the KE10 pitman arm bolts to the KE20 collapsible column, and you need to fab mounts for the collapsible bit in the cabin, but otherwise the KE20 column is the way to go for simple collapsible.
you could go to a KE70 column if you want to move to a rack and pinion front end... or AE86 is the same but with height adjust?

you will need to have engine engineered anyway.
even if you took brakes completely off another car, the bias will be wrong cos the car is very light, so don't be afraid to put different brakes on.... if you do keep from same car (or same dimensions, esp piston and disc size) then it might make the proprtioning easier.. maybe go a little smaller on the rear to make sure you have frotn bias....


in short...
first ask if you can widen track. then choose either KE20 or KE70 front end (KE70 needs some mods to cross-member to have new holes to bolt in). both need radius rod mounts. you migth wanna strengthen the strut towers.
struts... choose the brakes and then make struts fit S13/14 or datto R31??? are easy to swap brakes onto. you could keep it toyota and do pug/hilux, but that would be heavy. S13/14 (with ball joint issues maybe?) and 300ZX/R32 discs and calipers would be nice

diff, F with trutrack would be good if you plan power/abuse down the track, but T series is also ok for light car (with clutch pack LSD, easily available too).

4 link with watts would be perfect depends if gingerbeer likes that idea... i like it.

have fun

ps, if you need a plastic model to look at body styling changes, i have a couple

[Draven]

in the little <1 ton rolla, an F-series should be MORE than enough to cope with just about anything you do to it

[bomber]

oh that is FANTASTIC info.

im likeing this s13/14 front strut idea most of all, a mate of mine has a 180sx, might have to run a tape measure over the struts.
the level of choppy you have mentioned for this so far seems totaly fine imo. i just ment i dont want to be remaking the whole front end.

and what are F series diffs out of? tahts about all i need some clarification on atm.

any more ideas would be great, this is starting to look like an interesting project.

[Bananaman]

4 link with watts would be perfect depends if gingerbeer likes that idea... i like it.

I've been seeing 4 link setups on other cars every time i go into the workshop doing some machining to my struts, and its really got me tempted. When we're talking a cost of $2500 odd, i figure its best for me to draw the line on cost benefit.. If only i had a money tree. Can be engineered ok?

If you end up going the ke20 front end, i can detail the brake upgrade i'm doing using r31 struts, r32 gtst 280mm discs and calipers. Can also use R32 GTR 297mm discs and calipers. I'll be doing a writeup anyway when i'm done.

[bomber]

looks like i just made another friend. we'll see what happens, that wright up will be fantastic though.

[oldcorollas]

thats the one i was thinking of

4/5 link would be a lot of work. not just for the link mpunting, but for strengthening for springs etc... but i think it would be well worth it, as then you can dial in the amount of anitsquat/lift you want, and make power transfer 11tybillion times better than leaf.... maybe...

engineering, i never got a straight answer, but it is getting close to ICV since it is a rather substantial change...

edit: it's about time there was a "formula" for beastying up KE1X series they need more support in that respect

[bomber]

yeah, so perhaps a bit beyond what i want to do, but we'll see.

the reason im selling my morris and buying the sprinter is cause i would have had to move the firewall about 150mm back to fit the 4a in there, and engineeres didnt want to hear about it. but still, i do wanna get rid of those leaves lol

perhaps a real basic setup, three link. two bottom links going from the front spring mount to the diff, solid mounted to the diff. a panhard rod to keep it stable lateraly and then coil overs would be a lot simpler. a lot less adjustable to, but it sounds a lot easyer to get the nod on.

[Bananaman]

4/5 link would be a lot of work. not just for the link mpunting, but for strengthening for springs etc... but i think it would be well worth it, as then you can dial in the amount of anitsquat/lift you want, and make power transfer 11tybillion times better than leaf.... maybe...

engineering, i never got a straight answer, but it is getting close to ICV since it is a rather substantial change...

Even less people do big engines and brake upgrades in ke10/15 than in ke20/25 Most just do 4AGE, maybe ke70 brakes, and thats about it...

As far as 4 link being hard, its no way something i'd be doing myself, so harder = more cash. That said, most of the cars my bloke works with probably wouldn't be much different....

No way in the world i want to get into ICV territory, yuck :/ I'll ask around, but its more money i don't have - but then it'd be done right from the word go...

[oldcorollas]

well.. as you guys are in Oz any chance you could conuslt engineer and ask if 4/5 link is out of the question (might be different in NSW/QLD tho?? )
perhaps after the holidays....

i think it is worth pursuing, and may not actually be that hard to set up....(as long as it is strong enough, and the links are in right place.... of course that is simplifying it a bit but... )

[bomber]

ok ok ok i'll get onto one or two, i'll just give them a week or so after new years.

so what about these diffs, f series, where do i look so i know what im looking for? like i said i dont know that much about toyotas, im amazed i can remember that the cars a ke15.