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Thread: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

  1. #1
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    A couple of people have expressed interest in my AL25 engine conversion project on the forum, so I thought I may as well make a thread about it.

    Most of the content here is taken from the thread that I have been running in www.toyotacarclub.net and it will be in the form of a rather long slab with a few quotes and different datestamps in it.

    Let me know what you think of it so far.

    Cheers,
    Terry
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  2. #2
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    08/24/06 at 15:11:16
    Hi Guys,

    I am in the middle of replacing a broken 3A-C with a bigport 4A-GE in an AL25 Tercel wagon. So far we have run in to a few problems with the job including:

    The 4AGE flywheel from the AE82 donor car didnt fit as it was too big. The solution to this was to have the standard 3AC flywheel welded up and machined to match the 8 bolt crank of the 4AG. Unfortunately I broke one of the pressure plate bolts in it so I have to have it removed.

    The exhaust will not line up with the 4AGE as the old 3AC was non-crossflow. We will have to fabricate something up. I still have to find a RWD exhaust manifold for a 4AGE. Extractors would be nice.

    We need to fabricate up a mount for the alternator as the stock location is taken up by the front engine mount. The 3AC mount connects to the head and therefore it now compatable.

    Because the engine sits up so high (on top of the gearbox) the bonnet will not clear the inlet manifold. It was planned to use the stock FWD inlet manifold with a pipe coming off the back for the air filter (plenty of clearance between the throttle body and the firewall. We can either lower the manifold, get a custom manifold or (my favourite) cut a hole in the bonnet

    The whole thing is yet to be wired up. It shouldnt be too hard as we have the complete loom from the AL25 and the AE82.

    We need to make up a fuel system. I am considering a small surge tank in the engine bay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian
    So it's only a small job then?
    08/25/06 at 09:27:48
    Its not too bad really. So far it's cost fuck all and keeps me entertained

    08/27/06 at 21:01:29
    Well,

    It looks like the AL25 project is on hold. Matt has decided to fuck me around and wants to put the 4ag in to the seca. This means that I have to reverse all of the work that I have done so far and find a new engine to put in the Terc.

    Does anyone here have a 20v, or know where I can fine one to put in this fucker? I might take my time now that Matt isnt going to drive it and paint it properly. I think that it would look hot in black with a dark silver two tone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan
    painting with acrlyic is much easier than 2pak, so I'd go with straight colours.
    09/15/06 at 20:52:46
    Matt and I have managed to come to an agreement. I now own the 4AGE so the Tercel project is back on track.

    I have decided that I don't trust the redrilled flywheel so I will have to get a new one made up. The engine will be coming back out this weekend and I will be removing the flywheel.

    While I am waiting for that I am going to start prepping the car for paint - the red has to go. I am very keen on Toyota 202 black. A classic "blacker than black" shade used by them in the 80s. On top of this I am considering a dark grey two tone on the bottom of the car.

    To this end I will be stripping the car further and will start rubbing it down for the paint to be laid.

    Here is a photo of how the car looks at the moment:



    09/16/06 at 20:40:38
    Beej came over today and after we cut the bonnet oppen on his Mazda 323 SS(Spazzy), changed the oil, filled up the break fluid and replaced the bonnet with a new one, got to work on the Tercel.

    The engine came back out again (it was such an effort removing the 2 and a half bolts holding it in...)

    • Removed the pressure plate and clutch
    • Removed the flywheel
    • Did a crapload of sanding


    I have found someone who is going to machine up a new flywheel out of a high grade steel that will be far superior to the modified cast one that we just removed, particularly as the cast item had developed a few cracks during welding.

    We sanded about 80% of the roof back to the primer. We went through to the bare metal in a few spots and also found a few rust spots on the roof. Good thing that I picked up a jubo bucket of body filler. In the morning I will apply a coat of primer to the bald spots to stop surface rust forming.

    I need to remove the doors and hatch to allow me to sand them down, as well as the door jams. I plan to have this car painted so that you can't tell that it was red in the past, although the engine bay may prove to be a bit of an issue. Do you think it would be cool to leave that red? Being a covered area it hasnt faded much and therefore looks half decent.

    Once the engine is back in I will have to test fit the front quarters and bonnet to work out how much it doesnt fit by. I am still leaning towards a large reverse bonnet scoop like the one found on the VL Walkinshaw commodore.

    Perhaps I should consider fitting a bit of a bodykit to the car? Modified VK Commodore front and rear bumpers (or camira?) and AW11 side skirts?

    09/17/06 at 22:43:36
    I dropped off the flywheel to be copied today. I should get the replacement one in a week or so

    10/02/06 at 10:06:35
    We did more bodywork yesterday.

    The rear bumper has been removed and the hatch area stripped of it's interior.
    The body mouldings have all been removed and most of the holes filled.
    A couple of rust holes have been patched.

    We removed the windscreen to see just how bad the rust around it was. It had been patched at some stage in the past and is getting pretty bad.

    I need to weld up the holes and patch it up.

    10/15/06 at 13:45:57
    I havnt done much on the Terc in the last couple of weeks. Work has been sending me interstate a bit and I need to finish off a report for a client ASAP. We have done plenty of sanding though - about half way throufh that now.

    I do know that the flywheel is finished. I have to pick it up and get it balanced. Some new bolts arrived for me from the guys at Jarvis Toyota.

    The guys in the spare parts division down there are great! They always help me out and find obscure parts for old cars, often from overseas.

    I need to strip out the interior completely as the car is getting to the point where more of it is out than in anyway. I have to find a spot to mount the ECU and find a half decent stereo for the car. I am kinda tempted to fit an air conditioner to it too.

    11/01/06 at 12:13:38

    Jordan and I went and picked up the flywheel last night.

    Damn that thing is heavy.

    Here are a couple of pics:



    11/01/06 at 19:25:17
    I fitted the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate to the engine and fitted the engine to the car. As it was getting a little dark I don't have a picture of the car with the engine in it. I'll try and take one tomorrow.

    Here is the flywheel on the engine:


    Here is the complete clutch assembly just before I fitted the engine to the car.


    11/04/06 at 19:32:44
    Here is a shot of the car with the engine in it.



    As you can see a good deal of the interior has been removed as well as some of the fixed glass. Much sanding has taken place with much more to go...
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  3. #3
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    The latest update is that I have painted up a spare set of cam wheels that I had and put them on. While I was at it I replaced the timing belt with a new one.

    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    does the crank use a spiggot bearing , did u fit it before u fitted the motor
    Dave

  5. #5
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    Do you mean the thrust bearing behind the clutch on the gearbox? Yep - the old one never left the box.
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  6. #6
    Village Idiot Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    starfire, no, dave means the little bearing that is in the backside of the crankshaft that holds the input shaft in place. FWD motors do not have this by default - only RWD ones do. if you leave this out you will destroy the bearing for your input shaft as the input shaft will not be supported.

    ps: mate - great conversion. always liked the quirky al25 tercel

  7. #7
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    Hrm. Shit.

    I'll have to check the old engine.
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  8. #8
    Gary Motorsport Inc. Too Much Toyota takai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    The 4AGZE wont have a spigot bearing, and im 99% sure that the AL25 will need one.

    Which means entire engine out and back in to replace a $4 item.
    -Chris | Garage takai - Breaking cars since 1998
    Sparky - AE86 IPRA Racer | RZN149 Hilux - Parts and Car Hauler
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  9. #9
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    If I have to remove the engine again I'll put in a new clutch while I'm at it.
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  10. #10
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    The old engine has a bearing

    Who feels like helping me remove an engine on the weekend?

    I'll get a new clutch while I'm at it too.
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  11. #11
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    I have ordered a new clutch kit which I should get tonight as well as a new spigot bearing.

    Bearing - $13.50
    Clutch kit - $120
    Realizing that you have to pull out an engine over a $13 part - priceless

    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  12. #12
    Village Idiot Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    bugger man. sorry to give you bad news.
    pity you're in SA i'd spend 30 mins to give you a hand (it took me less than that to get my 4AGE outta my ta22 lastnight...)
    but better to get it right (now) than later

    thats a pretty cheap clutch too mate!

  13. #13
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    Heh,

    This will be the 5th or so time Ive removed this engine - I'm sure it wont be too much of a hassle
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  14. #14
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    Beej just dropped off the new clutch kit - $122.

    Cant really complain about that.

    By the looks of it it has plenty more meat on it than the one thats in there.
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  15. #15
    Building Corollas Chief Engine Builder Cuzzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Engine Conversion AL25 Tercel -> 4AGE

    Hey,
    Are you using the stock box?
    How much power would it hold? And what is the weak point in the drivetrain?
    KE30 4agte - Bullet - Rick Rolled
    UZX83 1UZ W58- Cruiser - Tow Car - Fun Car
    Quote Originally Posted by -GT- View Post
    You had an oil and plastics engine bay fire, with flames that reached at least to the roof - of course shit got hot, it wasn't burning jiffy firelighters back there.

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