3TGTE basic info needed.

[Stephen1974TA22]

Hi all, i am a huge fan of the site, spending may hours just reading through what ppl have done mostly in regard to the 3TGTE. i have been reading up for ages about trying to put this particular engine into my 1974 celica. And would like the basic info i should consider b4 going ahead with the project.(considering i am not very handy with the spanner).
Info i have gathered so far-
_The engine mounts should be fine with little or no modification needed.
_Crossmember will need slight modification<unsure>? since i have a standard 2T atm.
_Fuel lines will need upgrading with surge tank<read somewhere about using a fuel pump in the tank to push the fuel out the drain hole which then feeds the fuel lines.. is this a good option?>
_Can i run a standard radiator<if not the best/cheapest option possible> and will it need to be moved forward to accomodate the engine?
_Can i run the current gear box and diff? will put an upgraded clutchplate<if there is one?> in when engine comes out.
_Will the standard break system handle the engine? if not will vented front discs and some quality pads be suitable?

I will not be going for extreme performance i am just going to run the 3TGTE as standard. I am on an extremely tight budget, and will probably have to pay for most the work done since i got no idea about injection and turbo's. Any info will be great, so far http://users.chariot.net.au/~stmezz/3tginfo.htm ,has been the most helpful and i am looking forward to any extra info that ppl may have.

[Rcubed]

i'm no expert on the 3T-G so the following are general comments, with my little knowledge on the 3T in a TA22

send tweety or thetoyman75 a PM.

tweety is a fine example with 155rwkw.
he is using the std radiator but drives like a lil ol lady! the t series engines are all based on the same block [nearly], so rad doesn't need to move AFAIK.

depending on the year of the 3T-G there may be an issue with turbo oil return lines. you'll need to ask someone who knows more.

surge tank is not a requirement, but it is a smart idea. larger fuel lines are also smart if you go in search of more power. an EFI fuel pump is reqd, and you could get an expensive internal one, but on a tight budget VL commodore turbo is about as good as you can find.

the t50 gearbox is NOT a good option as it will break. the W5x series came with the 3T-G is better but will require some work to trans tunnel to fit. also you may need to change the prop shaft for the different length g'box.

the std diff will be ok for a while but may struggle if you up the power.

the brakes [a point close to my heart] need to be upgraded regardless of what you do - for your own safety. the corona/pug/hilux combination is covered ad nauseum on these fora - do a search on the tech articles.

i would also recommend a smallish intercooler for the 3T-G as high inlet temps are NOT ur engine's friend.

as far as keeping ur costs down goes, being part of toymods may help. there are endless people who are extremely knowledgeable [if not extremely grumpy ] and urs would not be that uncommon. they will be able to point you to shops who can do work for u, and if ur really nice [or offer wads of cash/beer/other vice] may even help you.

hope this helps!

[YelloRolla]

Have a look at this thread that is running concurrently in tech and conversions.

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14668

Tweety and the toyman_75 are both old ladies

[Rcubed]

Have a look at this thread that is running concurrently in tech and conversions.

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14668

Tweety and the toyman_75 are both old ladies

hahahaha. don't know rod that well but mitch? keeps talking about not breaking his. like you can if it never revs over 4.5k.

200+rwkw from urs wasn't it jason?

[TA22 GT]

_The engine mounts should be fine with little or no modification needed.
_Crossmember will need slight modification<unsure>? since i have a standard 2T atm.
_Fuel lines will need upgrading with surge tank<read somewhere about using a fuel pump in the tank to push the fuel out the drain hole which then feeds the fuel lines.. is this a good option?>
_Can i run a standard radiator<if not the best/cheapest option possible> and will it need to be moved forward to accomodate the engine?
_Can i run the current gear box and diff? will put an upgraded clutchplate<if there is one?> in when engine comes out.
_Will the standard break system handle the engine? if not will vented front discs and some quality pads be suitable?

.

As you have already found my site has a fair amount of info on fitting a 3T GTE into a TA22. As for your questions -

- The drivers side engine mount needs no mod at all as long as you use a 2T or 2TG mount, the 3T GTE mount is thicker and won't fit without mods.
- The passenger side engine mount needs mods to make room for the oil return line. I fitted a 3T GTE in a TA22 years ago without modifying the crossmember, BUT it was a reallt tight fit and not something I'd recommend. Best thing is to move the cross member mount bracket out by an inch or so.
- 5/16 fuel lines are plenty and if you just want to run the engine in stock form a 1/4 line is also big enough. Ideally you need an internal or external surge tank, or the quick and dirty option is to just fit a high pressure pump in the current fuel line to feed the engine. The fuel return line obviously needs to go back to th efuel tank, The TA22 should have 2 lines anyway so its not a big deal. Also make sure you use EFI hose as the stock fuel pressure for a 3T GTE is 275kpa.
- The stock radiator will be fine, In fact I found the 3T GTE runs a bit cooler than a 2TG when driving without boost that is. I have 145rwkw from my 3T GTE and have a triple core in the stock radiator tanks and its fine.
- The T50 gearbox and T series diff will do for a while. Stock power from a 3T GTE will be around 85rwkw.
-Standard brakes on a TA22 are crap and need t obe upgraded for anything better than a stock 2TG.

Hope this helps,
Simon
http://users.chariot.net.au/~stmezz/celica.htm

[YelloRolla]

200+rwkw from urs wasn't it jason?

Not quite, but not far off, 190 in round figures.

[Stephen1974TA22]

Thanx for all the info all..Has been much appreciated.
looking at getting the engine conversion done in the new year january no later than february, would there be anyone around the blacktown to penrith<and anywhere inbetween> that you could recomend to do the installation?

[RAIncarnated]

Hey Stephen1974TA22,

Im doing 3T-GTE conversion to my RA28 over the next few months as well, Though having the RA makes a few things easier, slightly longer engine bay and already has a wxx series gearbox so putting a w57 in wont require as much trans tunnel work.

Ill keep an eye out for extra info for you

Cheers RAI

[Stephen1974TA22]

Just so i know what i gotta start shopping for, can someone pls confirm. or suggest a better option.
_ 3TGTE engine<preferable newer version without oil return system for less installation hassle>
_ W55gear box<which requires tunnel work to fit>.
_ Drive line between box and diff <from auto TA22. easiest option>.
_ VL commodore turbo fuel pump<for cheap option> + get a surge tank.Or high pressure pump.<could use a lil more info so i can ID the part and start shoppin round>.
_ 5/16 fuel lines.
_ Sorce out somewhere to convert standard radiator to triple core.<will this handle a lil boost or will an additional intercooler be needed>.
_ Brakes totally got me baffled. Even after reading several different threads. I may need to scratch all my spare change together but what is the easiest upgrade?
Please if you think of something i may not have thought of, dont hesitate to let me know.I wanna have everything planned out b4 i execute the conversion since its my daily driver and needs to be back on the road ASAP once i get started.

[Zerko]

I'm in the Blacktown to Penrith area and I have a 3T-GTE and TA22 combo. I won't offer to help directly, due to time commitments (well, the lack of spare..) but I will offer you a look at my setup. It is a VERY basic setup with minimal mods, but it does work well.
It hasn't been on the road for a long time, but it's in excellent condition. It will see the track very soon and I will start modding it for performance if I get sick of it.

Briefly,
- Stock water-cooled 3TGTE,
- Stock crossmember,
- Stock ECU (rewired by me, but with a little help from TurboRA28 a long time ago),
- Stock T50 (yes, drive it like ma),
- Heavy duty clutch from Western Clutch St Marys.
- Stock, single spinner diff,
- Stock radiator modified by P&G radiators on Great Western @ St Marys. 3-core and relocated top pipe. Done a long time ago.
- 3in to 2.5in mandrel exhaust by Penrith Muffler man (done 10 years ago LOL),
- Stock 1/4" metal fuel lines, 1 x high pressure, 1 x return. All hoses EFI.
- EFI fuel pump (although I have a VL turbo pump waiting in case this one dies),
- Modified fuel tank (twin outlet) done by P&G. Does not surge unless there is very little fuel.
- 10in DBA vented disks on RA60 struts, spring cups moved to lower,
- Ferodo DS2500 (road/track pads). Done ny a guy at Lovells a long time ago.
- SS braided brake lines (ADR)
- All suspension and steering components replace recently.

I suggest making sure chassis, suspension, steering and brakes are up to scratch before the engine conversion.

PM me and I'll try and make some time.

[RiceburnaGTV]

Zerko, I too am in the Blacktown to Penrith area

This set up sounds sweet mang,ill have to pop over when my car is done etc and have a look.


Stephen,I think most info has been covered but one thing I need to ask is how much you have budgeted? As you can see from the responses,dropping in a 3tgte will require alot of upgrades in other areas aswell,especially the brakes. If you are going to pay a shop to do the conversion you are probably better off saving up a little more and buying one already done. There was aTA22 on here for ages going for 7K with a 3tgte etc and was a beautiful example. I really cant see you getting much change from 5K at best if you get a shop to do it and good luck with them having it ready by Feb if they started now...

My advice is maybe check out these forums for the next 6 or so months,learn about your car(you will be surprised how quickly) also make some friends and get up to the point where you can tackle most of it yourself. Cause trust me mate conversions will always cost you alot more than originally planned...In the meantime tackle some of the other inherant problems with these old girls like,rubbers,hinges and windows,sound deadening,rust and maybe a brake conversion once your confidence builds...

Anyways that process has helped me alot, especially forming some good friendships with people who have tollerated my gimpness with cars and taken the time to answer my stoopid questions

Cheers
Nath

[RT104GT]

_The engine mounts should be fine with little or no modification needed.

T engine no problem sump is same


_Crossmember will need slight modification<unsure>? since i have a standard 2T atm.
_Fuel lines will need upgrading with surge tank<read somewhere about using a fuel pump in the tank to push the fuel out the drain hole which then feeds the fuel lines.. is this a good option?>


Hate pumps in tanks, use Cresida external pump easy to fit

You cant suck the fuel through it doesn't work (vapour locks) the 1/4 inch return line is fine for relieved fuel after 60 psi no problem.


_Can i run a standard radiator<if not the best/cheapest option possible> and will it need to be moved forward to accomodate the engine?

Fit a new or reco radiator, or at least cleans all the crap out of your old one and check all the fins are cleaned out, and run coolant additive, don't risk the engine its not worth it

_Can i run the current gear box and diff? will put an upgraded clutchplate<if there is one?> in when engine comes out.
My standard T50 lasted 6 weeks and started to scream so I fitted a W55. Its a matter of what you can afford and how much work you want to do. the motor has twice the horsepower and on a used gearbox regardless of its power handling rating, useally spellls trouble.

_Will the standard brake system handle the engine? if not will vented front discs and some quality pads be suitable?

Depends how fast you drive and what terrain, Again double HP double the speed four times the stopping distance. I would do the brakes first and then the engine but then I am a chicken . Shit mate your gonna have a car that goes 40 to 60 kph faster of course you do the brakes.

[Stephen1974TA22]

Starting to change my game plan..
I drive my standard 2t hard, and budget stretching it was going to be $5000.
Originally i was intending to get the engine in then do the rest but with all the info comin my way it sounds like a much better idea strating with the brakes, then fuel system, then cooling system and when that is done trying to put in the engine+new gearbox<since i tend to drive my cars hard>.

Thinking that if i start on the fuel + cooling i may be able to do most of it with some mates and get greasy to save some $..probably stretch out the time plan to do lil jobs over weekends and leave it to last minute to get the engine+box<since they will take alot longer than i thought to install>

Will upgrading the fuel lines and putting an efi hp pump in whilst still running the standard 2T<with mechanical pump> do it any harm?

On a slightly diff note. Does anyone now where i could get new window seals<side windows> and the verticle strip/seal between the 2.

Thanx to everyone so who has helped so far. I think you helped me avoid a disaster by jumping in without knowing the ins and outs. I'm sure i'll have many more questions to come and look forward to getting to know you all a lil better

[TheToyman75]

Stephen,

You will get allot of varied answers to the same questions here mate as there are always a number of ways to tackle a conversion. Some have more merit than others of course.

$5000 won't get your 3T-GTE in and running if you have to pay someone else to do it for you. If you want to gt your hands dirty and learn about your car in the process then the cheapest option can be to buy an abandoned project. Ebay Has been literered with TA22's for sale lately.

If you can buy one at the right price that already has the engine, gearbox brakes etc all in and running then you can always swap it all over into your body and sell off the remaining spares. Just make sure its a neatly done conversion or you will end up re-doing it all anyway.

Otherwise, Start with the brakes. You can't use an efi fuel system with the carby 2T and the radiator si best done to suit the 3T-GTE install.

[YelloRolla]

He should make an offer on your TA22 project - 5K would cover it