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Thread: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

  1. #1
    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Question intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    hey guys, got a bit of confusion running around my head at the moment
    i have a 1ggte that runs on a gas carb, and used to have a single T04 turbo on it, no intercooler, as shown in the pic.
    now ive bought this car, the turbo and manifold was taken away, so i am planning on putting stock turbos and manifold on.
    now my issue comes with my want to intercool it, the reason being that lpg + compressed air = very hot intake and burn temps = detonation?
    im thinking that under such temperatures the engine will be under excessive heat, and am not sure as i dont know the characteristics of gas, but i assume that i will be close to detonation yes?
    so i was thinking, this is easy, just wack an intercooler in.....problem, in the setup in the picture it appears that the turbo is compressing both the air and lpg mixture (yes?)
    ok this is just creating more and more questions so ill try and write them all and hope to get some answers...
    1) could i intercool the lpg/air mixture, or would this damage the intercooler or would all the lpg get left behind in the cooler? (remembering the lpg comes out as a vapour)
    2)how would i connect that carby to the twin turbos?
    3)im thinking i may have to put the carb on the other side of the intercooler and blow thru the carb...would this work without damage to the carb?
    ok i think that will do for now, plz tell me your thoughts and opinions and hopefully a useful conclusion will be reached....
    oh last question:
    4) ive never seen the stock twin turbos, so do that have a single inlet, or 2 seperate inlets?
    if they have a single inlet that means the turbos could draw thru the carb, as set up in the pic, or would the lpg in the turbos create issues?
    cheers guys
    andrew
    Last edited by love ke70; 02-01-2006 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    gas has a higer octane that petrol which will allow you to run more boost.
    it is extremly easy to run GRA carby blow thru, which is your best option.
    If i were u, go the stock turbo's or single turbo, thru a cooler, then up to the
    GRA throttle body. Just like ur replacing the old EFI Tb with the gas carby.
    Then get it dyno'd and your set All that is needed is a balance line from
    the turbo outlet to the convertor top cover.

  3. #3
    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    ok, so detonation wont be such an issue, but the exces heat still will be, do u know the exact octane of gas?

    GRA? Gas Research Australia yes?
    im goin stock turbos (its in a ke70 corolla! too much power already!)
    any ideas on size of the cooler i should run?
    u lost me when u sed
    Just like ur replacing the old EFI Tb with the gas carby.
    Then get it dyno'd and your set All that is needed is a balance line from
    the turbo outlet to the convertor top cover.
    so absically wat ur sayin is take the cooled air from the intercooler thru the gas carb, and run that into the inlet, yes?
    why do i need it dyno'd? just for fun or for a tune?:s
    wat is this balance line from the turbo outlet to the convertor top?
    cheers heaps for that info tho mate

  4. #4
    Unbiased Grease Monkey Earlyrolla's Avatar
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    Go to:

    http://www.gasresearch.com.au/05.html

    Download the file labelled "Forced Induction Guide" bottom right of screen.

    Unzip, install and run the application. It is a tutorial explaining forced induction with GRA gas carburettor.

    As for the 'exact' octane rating of LPG, it depends on the blend of propane, butane and other small volume components. I don't think there is currently a standard octane rating but I may be wrong...

  5. #5
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    Yeah check out the Gas research website. It'll show you how to do it. Basically a blow thru setup. If you plan on keeping the stock turbo's maybe just a cheep chinese ebay cooler.
    Get it dyno'd for tune, since running gas rich can cause detonation just as badly as running lean. It does run a little hotter than petrol but nothing to really be concerned about if your cooling system is in order. Like earlyrolla said gas' octane vairies with the mix of propane and butane. If you can get pure propane (around 130 octane!!) but butane i forgot, but is much lower, so usually mixed is anywhere between 100-110. If you live out far then some servo's do actually sell pure propane which would be pretty interesting, but you'd need to 're tune' to suit.
    (keep a spare metering rod from the gas carby, 1 for pure propane, i for normal lpg) -- something i've wanted to do! The balance line is a line run from the intake piping (near turbo outlet) to the top of the gas convertor (there is a threaded hole which u can screw a barb fitting into)
    Hope this helps.

  6. #6
    Toymods Club Member #194 Conversion King Lambolica's Avatar
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    I recall LPG being around the 105 RON mark, But I would advise a search on that. as I can't find the info quickly.
    Beige.... The new Black!!!

  7. #7
    Chookhouse Chooning Automotive Encyclopaedia Hen's Avatar
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    The above comments seem to answer your question well, but if you have done your research and still have questions, drop Mrshin a line. He is a big fan of the gas (not NAWWWWS) and has played with it a lot.

    Hen

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    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    cool thats awesome guys, im gonna go play with all that info, poke it with a stick and see what i come up with, appreciation to all

  9. #9
    Gobble, Gobble! Automotive Encyclopaedia mrshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    I figured someone would mention my name eventually

    Gimme a yell if you're still having issues working it out.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    ok thanx mate, im currently thinking ill run draw through on the carb and not intercool it as its only in a ke70, if i have detonation or excessive heat issues i may re do it with an intercooler, but i dont see the need just yet, only seventeen, 900kg car + 1ggte, i dont think i need the extra power that the intercooler will offer just yet
    thoughts?
    cheers

  11. #11
    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    you wont just lose power from the cooler, the carby is much more efficient being blown thru than it is being drawn thru. Also not sure if the 1g standard turbo's have carbon seals or not -- if they don't you'll need to change them -- that is if you still want to run draw thru.

    If you don't want the expense of a cooler, then just do blow thru without one, that way it's easier to add one later on as well.

  12. #12
    she loves me coz im a Conversion King love ke70's Avatar
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    re changed plans, im goin a huge ass ricer cooler, stickin out the bottom so it dont block the a/c and radiator
    something like 600*300*76 or
    560*200*90
    both on ebay, so not gonna be great, but fairly cheap and pretty bloody big and will serve the puropose
    thoughts? opinions?
    and ill have to work out the technicalities of running blow through on the gas carb, but ill get there...mrshin i think ill be in contact
    im thinking that as ill have to get some form of pipework made for the blow thru, i may as well do it properly first time round, yes?
    so im prob up for about another 600 to get intercooler + piping + zorst
    and the 150 for the turbos
    just over 2000 all up for a fully running 1ggte with w57 and alfa diff, plus lots of goodies...this is cool

    so yeah, any thoughts on coolers?
    and ill be back with more gas questions as i progress,
    cheers, andrew

  13. #13
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    might pay to trawl thru the old forums' classified section as there were a few people with what amounted to standing prices for cheap coolers. e.g. 600*300*76 for under $300 without the hassles of eBay.

    next hurdle: since you're not running the factory ECU, you'll need some kind of timing control. The stock dizzi (if you pull the cover off) only has the rotor and three pickups (2 x single tooth, 1 x 24 tooth) and you'll need some kind of ECU that use data from one/more of those (as well as a TPS and MAP sensors) to follow a suitable timing map that retards the timing during boost but give adequate advance elsewhere.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    ok umm im lost with the second point that you make chuckster, i see the point ur making, that the timing should advance and retard with boost etc...however the car was running before i bought it, and there is nothing apparent, the only distributor mod i know of is that the distributer is a Toyota 5M EFI motor modified shaft with 1G-GTE gear...duno wat that would do and what would happen if i ran constant timing?
    cheers, andrew

  15. #15
    Official Off Topic KING! Conversion King stradlater's Avatar
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    Default Re: intercooling 1ggte on gas carb

    Don't run constant timing.. You WILL pop things..

    I'd get your dizzy modified (rather heavily however) to have a vacuum advance + boost retard function. I know the guy who does this if your interested. I had mine modified by him (not to do that though) and it was good.

    Also, be very careful with the idea of the thing not detonating.. Yes you can run more boost with gas, but also be careful, because it's MUCH harder to hear an engine PING when on LPG.. They do still ping, it's just that you won't here it sometimes.. :-)

    I might add, I have mine on LPG if you wanna have a look at the website for the pics.

    www.stradlater.com

    I'll also have some newer pics of the new intercooler setup on it soon (piping included).
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