MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
I am building up a 4agte from a bigport afm gze. Basicly i want to convert it to map as i hear map is a better, easier and neater way to go. Is there any reason why i cant use the map computer and wiring on the afm engine?
- I will be using a greddy e-manage as well to help out with ignition and timing etc.
- Can i get a bigger capacity MAP from another engine to handle more boost than the stock gze one can handle? I heard it cuts at about 14psi.
or...
Am i just wasting everyones time and should get an aftermarket computer. I would just rather not go down that track as i want to use all the factory sensors and have the car run well at idle etc.
Hope someone has played with the concept and can give some experienced advice,
Cheers...Tim
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
the toyota ECU will be coded with that specific airflow sensor in mind - you cant just repalce an AMF with a MAP sensor... they measure totally differently things (air flow versus absolute pressure).
The emanage is an piggyback unit? so it too is dependant on the stock sensors being in place.
If you want to go from AFM to MAP - get an ECU that either supports use of an external MAP sensor or has one built-in (which is far more sensible), e.g. an aftermarket ECU.
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
if you have an emanage you could just run a larger afm as an option...
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
I would be using all the wiring, sensors and computer from the map motor.
Its going to be in a show car so id rather get rid of the ugly afm.
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
The wiring, ecu and sensors are from a small port motor yeah? I dont know if you can just change them over... they might both be 4age's but they are different generations, with mechanical differences.
As far as I know you would need an aftermarket ECU to use a map sensor, or something that converts the map sensor signal into the AFM signal...
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
The Greddy emange ultimate allows you to get rid of the afm. It basically works as an interceptor, but with it's own injector and ignition drivers. I haven't seen it personally done on a 4agze, but it should be doable.
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=297552 in depth thread about emanage ultimate, misubishi gto based, but it gives you info about how powerful the emanage ultimate is.
Down side is that no one in australia uses them to full potential and you'll be hard pressed to find someone that will be willing to do it.
this is mitsubishi based but it does show what the unit is capable of
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=297552 the start of the thread
http://www.3si.org/forum/showpost.ph...42&postcount=4 maf/afm deletion description
http://www.3si.org/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=125 more maf deletion here
http://www.3si.org/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=128 more about maf deletion
To get full control you have to spend up big on the emanage ultimate, plus extra harnesses for injector and ignition, then map sensor, and an air temp sensor. Going on modyourcar prices it's 879 for the unit and software, plus 195 for "Complete Universal Harness" plus the supplement harness at 69, and the air temp and map sensor, which aren't listed on the modyourcar site.
As with all engine tuning, it's all dependent on engine tuner on how well the cars drivabilty is. Anyone can tune for power, but it still takes a good ear and good old fashioned feel to get good drivability.
So going for it is sensor compatibility, the ability to stealth the installation and still have your factory ecu in the kickpanel, datalogging, AFR targeting, full ignition and tming control.
Going against it, i've not heard of many people using it past piggyback stage, so you'll probably be a guinea pig.
Good luck with it, I hope to get one soon to control a 20v on boost, to be a guinea pig too. But it won't be for 6 months at least.
Dan
The spanner in my avatar is actually a 16mm, that's why it's still new
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
Dan thanks for the helpful post. Ill have a read of the article you gave me the link for and see what i think. Its just i can get a good price on the greddy stuff through work so if i can use it then its a bonus. But yeh who the hell would tune it? guess i have to ask those questions first before i buy it.
Cheers again
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
if you are worried about pressure, Megasquirt2 can be used with a 3 bar or 4 bar absolute pressure sensor.
as charles said, AFM and MAP measure different things...
if you could make a table of MAP vs AFM voltages with the emanage, then it might be possible, but is just as much hassle or more than tuning from a blank start anyway (and need to be more careful as spark timing is also based on the AFM?)
if all you want to do is to change to MAP for show... why not just run the stock MAP ECU and sensors? same effect for looks, works just like stock... no hassles...
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Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
I think your plan should work.
Do I understand right that you want to take your bigport, AFM GZE and fit all the sensors, loom and ECU from a later MAP sensed GZE?
If so then the only problem I can see is if you curently run dizzy then you will need to upgrade to CAS and twin coils to suit the new ECU. Also I am unsure if earlier ZEs had knock sensors. Easy enough to add though.
It could well be a lot of work to get all the bits you need and get it running properly, so an aftermarket ECU could be easier/simpler.
Hen
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
Originally Posted by timgte
Just stirring
Yes, it should work OK. Not sure how close to a perfect tune you will be able to get, but it won't be slow...
Hen - All ZE's have knock sensors
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
Another thing to think of is idle speed control, can the management you choose handle the massive inlet tract (which really is a giant plenum on a gze)
Unless of course you are going to retain the top mount (yuck) or go all out and get a air/water intercooler
Can any of the aftermarket compters do this successfully yet? You need to set limits on how far the idle speed motor moves, well just a theory of mine, so it doesn't fluctuate wildy as it tries for find a sweet spot to idle.
Dan
The spanner in my avatar is actually a 16mm, that's why it's still new
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
Well, from what I read in the first post he plans to go turbo anyway, so unless he had some bone-headed idea of fitting the throttle to the turbo inlet, there should be no issues with idle control...
Re: MAP computer on AFM engine with e-manage?
Yes, I've gotten mine to idle "properly" with a fairly big (1GGTE cooler from a GZ20) frontmount.
Wolf V4 lets you play with the rpm tracking speeds, target ISCV opening depending on temp and target RPM dependant on temp too. Admittedly the best I can do is about 1100-1200 idle without it ever stalling. Plus there is an open loop idle lock that I haven't considered at all yet.
The main thing is you just need to slow the ISCV response down... alot.
Hen
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