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Thread: 4ag into ma70 chassis

  1. #1
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    Default 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Hey mates, and greetings from the states.

    Ive been involved now with making custom ma70/71 supra parts for about 4 years now. Im currently working on a new project - installing a 4ag 20 valve or 3sg into a fully caged ma70 mk3 chassis.

    My questions are these:

    -What to do about the distributor on the back of the head?
    -What to do about installing a r154 trans to the back?
    -What year of 4ag or 3sg to install?

    Thanks guys for all your help.

    ~Jon @ MDC

  2. #2
    back into it Chief Engine Builder
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    you cant be for real? R154 behind a 4ag and a 4ag in a car that a 1j or 2j fits nicely in!

    dizzy wont be a problem in a ma70 as you will have plenty of room!

    you could go much smaller brakes as well, the 4ag will onlu have 10hp at the wheels once the hp gets to the other end of the r154!
    intresting concept for a motorsport company

  3. #3
    ANGRY MAN 2011 Chief Engine Builder Admiral coFF33's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    um, 4AGE only goes in corollas (from the 80's) and celicas (from the 70's) if you want an upgraded engine ....

    You have a Ma70, weighing in at 1.4 tonne, give or take 200kg, wtf would ya be thinkin to put a 4 banger in ?

    1JZ/2JZ would be a WAY better idea mate

  4. #4
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic Supra-Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Interesting.........

    As stated above the 4AG seems a little like strapping a BB gun to a Leopard Tank, however I would be very interested to hear more about the method behind this apparent madness.

    What is the reason for such a small motor in such a 'heavy' but also accomodating frame? Is this 4AG something special? I hope it is!!

    More details please!!!
    They call them fingers.... but i've never seen them fing!!!!

  5. #5
    HHeLiBeBCNOFNeNaMgAlSiPS Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Quote Originally Posted by mdcmotorsports
    Hey mates, and greetings from the states.

    Ive been involved now with making custom ma70/71 supra parts for about 4 years now. Im currently working on a new project - installing a 4ag 20 valve or 3sg into a fully caged ma70 mk3 chassis.

    My questions are these:

    -What to do about the distributor on the back of the head?
    -What to do about installing a r154 trans to the back?
    -What year of 4ag or 3sg to install?

    Thanks guys for all your help.

    ~Jon @ MDC
    Is this for a racing class? You want a 4 cyl to be pushed right back into the engine bay to improve weight distribution?
    you know what I mean this electric stream
    and my tears in league with the
    wires and energy and my machine
    this is my beautiful dream

  6. #6
    Current UZA80 owner Chief Engine Builder JustCallMeOrlando's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Even still, there are other chassis' which arent so bloody heavy that would still enable the engine to be mounted real far back.
    Teh UZA80 - Project Century - Remotely p00'd by association

  7. #7
    HHeLiBeBCNOFNeNaMgAlSiPS Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Quote Originally Posted by JustCallMeFrank
    Even still, there are other chassis' which arent so bloody heavy that would still enable the engine to be mounted real far back.
    an aw11 springs to mind!
    you know what I mean this electric stream
    and my tears in league with the
    wires and energy and my machine
    this is my beautiful dream

  8. #8
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic Dimitri's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    a really full on 3s sort of makes sense in a very heavily lightened mk3 supra. but forget the 4ag.

    if you really want a front mid engined car though i think youre better off trying to find a lighter chassis to work with.

    sa/ra6X celica or G/MZ1X soarer come to mind if you want to build a toyota.. maybe even mx71? a generation older design but still more suitable for 4 cylinder power.

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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Well we were looking at the 4ag simply because its very available here in the states. The 3s is hard to find. The 4ag is also the premier engine in the older toyota atlantic racing car series here in the states.

    I understand that the ma70-71 chassis is nothing short of a panzer tank, but thats the whole problem.

    Our project car is 100% completely gutted. There is nothing stock left on the car except for some suspention parts, the body and turn signals. Every thing is comming to be custom on this project.

    We got the idea from Top Secret of Japan when I went to Tokyo about 2 years ago. They put in a 3s turbo engine into a mk4 supra body. Their goal - 50/50 weight distribution with about 450hp. They achieved thier mark and really opened up some eyes.

    My goal is to simply have a ma70-71 chassis that is 50/50 weight distribution, and with the help of some serious engine work come out with around 275/315hp. (We're talking dry sump, cut & bored crank, carillo rods, etc etc etc on full alcohol fuel.)

    So any answers to my original questions?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    well you can foget using the r154 it will not be needed and your wasting HP.
    id imagine even with the 4ag you will need it half way threw the firewall to get 50/50 split but i have never scaled a bare m70.
    i take it you mean atmo not turbo? either way the 3sg is going to be the better option.

  11. #11
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic Supra-Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Would you need the R154 trans for that kind of power? I'm not an expert on gboxes but could you use something else, more readily adaptable to the 4AG? I'm sure someone else can jump in with suggestion.....

    Also what are these custom A70 parts you have been making for a while now?
    They call them fingers.... but i've never seen them fing!!!!

  12. #12
    Junior Member Chief Engine Builder Classique71's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Quote Originally Posted by mdcmotorsports
    Well we were looking at the 4ag simply because its very available here in the states. The 3s is hard to find. The 4ag is also the premier engine in the older toyota atlantic racing car series here in the states.

    Im sure you could track down a 3sgte from an Alltrac ..

    theres even a group a / RC one in a jdm import last check on ebay over there

    If its atmo - start with a 7mge - which should be readily available over there and start beefing that up!
    Saphira - ST205 Celica GT-FOUR Group A NZ No:1/4
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  13. #13
    Car Butcher Carport Converter WDE_BDY's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    If its custom, move the firewall. Something like this springs to mind -




  14. #14
    Nay sayer Domestic Engineer Mr Ed's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    Holy crap! Youd need to sit in the boot just to reach the shifter!
    I used to eat alot of natural foods. That was until I learned that most people died of natural causes.

  15. #15
    MR 18RG Chief Engine Builder The Witzl's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4ag into ma70 chassis

    If you are completely set on the idea of a 4-banger in your land barge MA70, then have a look at the older JGTC "Castrol" mk4 Supra that used to run a heavily modified 3S-GTE. There was some VERY VERY extensive body modifications to push the engine all the way back to nearly make it an armrest for the driver....

    .... but a few points to note regarding the reasons behind doing so:
    ---- JGTC rules regarding boost levels is what made the race teams go for a 4-cylinder over a 6-cylinder.... they could get more power from the 3S under the regulations.
    ---- These supras now run uber modified 3UZ engines (i believe), so the 4-cylinder idea is somewhat redundant now.


    ..... How about you do something "out of the ordinary" (by US standards), and fit a 1UZ-FE engine and a couple of exhaust driven compressors (turbos)?
    The 1UZ is not only all alloy and farkawl extra weight over the 4AG, it is also a million times better, being so spastically over-engineered that ramming 600hp out of a 100% internally stock engine is not out of the question!

    Now that's my idea of a real race-car!!!

    ftw!
    ...... butt scratcher?!


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