Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29

Thread: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

  1. #1
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    FBiH
    Posts
    13

    Default My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    Hi everyone, and thanks for having me on the forum.

    This is my first post, and it will be a long one.

    If you watch youtube and occassionally type 4age or mr2 in the search box, you might already know me, I'm the guy behind the driving 4 answers channel and here is my bike carb converted 4age engine!


    So first of all some details about the engine:
    It's a 4age 16v bigport with the following aftermarket parts:
    • Techno toy tuning cam gears
    • Techno toy tuning injector plugs, water pump, alternator and crankshaft pulleys and trigger wheel (not in picture)
    • MRP n2 style cambelt stabiliser (overkill I know, but I love it and had timing belt skipping issues in the past)
    • DanST engineering bike carb conversion kit that consists of a set of Honda CBR F4 bike carbs, welded on trumpets, intake manifold to suit the carbs, pipercross filter and backing plate for the filter and a motorcycle fuel pump.
    • Carbs have been jetted using a 6 sigma racing jet kit
    • Ignition is via a NODIZ pro standalone ignition ECU
    • Pistons are smallport pistons for some higher compressions
    • Cams are two exhaust catcams from this set: http://www.catcams.com/products/cams...AMSETUP_id=827 (very mild, will go more aggressive later on)
    • Head gasket and all gaskets are stock OEM Toyota
    • A AEM x-series wideband gauge has been installed
    • Wiring harness has been rewired and minimized to suit the setup.



    There are detailed unboxing videos of all of this on my channel, plus the first start video, engine install and a bunch of other stuff you will like if you like the 4age, the mr2 and old school Japanese cars in general Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/mr2mk1hero

    If you have any questions feel free to ask me

    Here are some of my questions:

    1. I removed the Circuit opening relay when rewiring everything because, well....without the AFM it doesn't really work anymore. I wired in a tachometric relay from a BMW, but it doesn't seem to work at all. I don't know whether it's faulty or because tachometric relays such as this one can't be used for this purpose? To start the fuel pump when starting the car all it needs is a positive starter signal, which I have provided and am sure it's right. The fuel pump works fine when I bridge the connections and remove the relay. Is there a known tachometric relay that works, or did I just get a faulty one?

    2. My tachometer doesn't work now that I removed the ignition coil and installed the NODIZ ECU. The NODIZ ecu has a tachometer output, but it's for modern and aftermarket tachos (12V peak to peak square wave at 50% duty). So what's the best solution to get the stock tacho working? I know there are a couple but I want one where I don't have to remove the instrument panel....I am afraid of old brittle plastic. The NODIZ has a Bluetooth connection and you can have a tachometer super easily on your phone or tablet but I still want my stock one working as it should.

    Thanks a lot in advance!
    Last edited by mr2mk1hero; 30-04-2018 at 11:25 PM.

  2. #2
    1MZ > 2JZ Carport Converter knightrous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,770

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    Quote Originally Posted by mr2mk1hero View Post
    2. My tachometer doesn't work now that I removed the ignition coil and installed the NODIZ ECU. The NODIZ ecu has a tachometer output, but it's for modern and aftermarket tachos (12V peak to peak square wave at 50% duty). So what's the best solution to get the stock tacho working?
    Use a relay and this circuit (The MS3X Tacho Output would be your NODIZ Tacho Output).
    TrackDub - 89' AW11 1MZFE | SlushDub - 89' AW11 4AGZE | SW21MZ - 90' SW20 1MZFE
    http://www.midrear.net - My AW11 blog of DIY mechanics, grassroots motorsports and driveway shenanigans...

  3. #3
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic jondee86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    369

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    What he ^^^^ said Just use the coil from any spare automotive relay. You don't need the moving part of the contacts so remove or otherwise disable them to stop the annoying buzzing. Switching the coil circuit to ground with your tacho output will generate the voltage spike that your old school tacho needs to work.

    The fuel pump relay seems to use a signal from the coil to operate, so there is at least a reasonable chance that if you use the same signal that you use to drive the tacho it will trigger the relay as well. Worth a try

    Cheers... jondee86
    Last edited by jondee86; 01-05-2018 at 06:51 PM.

  4. #4
    Toymods Events Secretary Too Much Toyota trdee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    10,134

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    yeah circuit opening relay has a shit tonne of various things that need to be "on" for it to work so depending on where you have spliced it wont work. best off to wire it to the fuel pump independently of any old stuff
    1988 AW11 9A-GTE - project #1 | 1980 KP60 4K - project #2 | 1994 UZZ31 Soarer 1UZ-FZE - Cruise missile
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Kelway View Post
    .....and the within first laps everything that made the AW11 great hit Rex as if the 'Gods of driving fun' had all Jizzed on his face.....
    Quote Originally Posted by JustenGT8 View Post
    Mono blocs mate....as close to yours as a Ferrari is to a Fiesta

  5. #5
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic jondee86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    369

    Post Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    Because this Bosch relay is something new to me, I went looking for some information. The best I could find was this diagram...



    For your viewing pleasure I have translated the pin descriptions as follows...
    31 A constant connection to ground
    30 A constant connection to +12V (directly to the battery, power cable)
    50 Start signal - Second position of the key switch
    15 Ignition switch ON signal
    1 ENGINE SPEED SIGNAL - the same track on the coil as the rev counter
    87b Power output of +12V for the fuel pump
    87 Non- essential (for more power output for other elements such as the heated oxygen sensor etc.

    So it does seem that if it takes a voltage spike to drive the tacho, then the same signal will also trigger the relay.

    Cheers... jondee86

  6. #6
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    FBiH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    Quote Originally Posted by trdee View Post
    yeah circuit opening relay has a shit tonne of various things that need to be "on" for it to work so depending on where you have spliced it wont work. best off to wire it to the fuel pump independently of any old stuff
    I got rid of the COR, not using it at all. It's useless without AFM

  7. #7
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    FBiH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    Quote Originally Posted by jondee86 View Post
    Because this Bosch relay is something new to me, I went looking for some information. The best I could find was this diagram...



    For your viewing pleasure I have translated the pin descriptions as follows...
    31 A constant connection to ground
    30 A constant connection to +12V (directly to the battery, power cable)
    50 Start signal - Second position of the key switch
    15 Ignition switch ON signal
    1 ENGINE SPEED SIGNAL - the same track on the coil as the rev counter
    87b Power output of +12V for the fuel pump
    87 Non- essential (for more power output for other elements such as the heated oxygen sensor etc.

    So it does seem that if it takes a voltage spike to drive the tacho, then the same signal will also trigger the relay.

    Cheers... jondee86
    Jondee thanks so much for the diagram man, but you shouldn't have bothered. I already knew all the connections, found them on a Peugeot 206 gti forum, as that car uses the very same tachometric relay, just made by a different company (HELLA or Hitachi i think).

    Here's how the relay actually works. When you first turn the key in the on position the relay uses the positive starter signal to run the fuel pump for a few seconds so you can start the car. The output for the tacho plays no role at this point. Once the car starts, the coil firing signal is the trigger for continued power to the pump. It's a pulse signal. If the engine is stalled or the rpms drop below 300 or so, the relay cuts power to the pump. As such it serves the same role of the COR, and stops fuel splashing around in case you have an accident.
    Now my problem is that when I turn the key into the on position nothing happens, the fuel pump doesn't start. I managed to start the car without that, because there was fuel in the bowls, but the relay didn't run the pump even with the coil pulse signal, and the engine just stalled once the bowls ran out of fuel. So I'm thinking the relay is faulty (I bought it used), but I don't know how to test it.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic jondee86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    369

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    OK... sounds pretty straight forward. Basic tests would be...

    1. 12V constant (un-switched) supply to Pin 30.
    2. Solid ground (or battery negative) to pin 31.
    3. Apply 12V to pin 15. Pin 87b should get 12V for a few seconds. Leave 12V on this pin, then...
    4. Apply 12V to Pin 50. Pin 87b should get 12V constant.

    You can bench test these functions without the pump. Use your multimeter between pin 87b and battery negative to check for the 12V pump output. If these tests work then you will need to check the relay base (or your in-car connections) to make sure you have 12V and ground on the right pins at the right time.

    I would expect the engine to fire up without the tacho signal, but die as soon as you let go of the key and the 12V on Pin 50 is removed. Once the engine is past the "cranking threshold" pin 50 will be ignored and the tach input will keep the relay latched ON.

    If the relay is expecting a voltage spike on the tacho input, then it could be looking for 30 or 40 volts, and I don't know of any way to simulate that, so testing on the car is probably the only way to check if it works.

    Cheers... jondee86
    Last edited by jondee86; 03-05-2018 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Added more info...

  9. #9
    Fustrated DYI mechanic Automotive Encyclopaedia Omegaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sydney N.S.W
    Posts
    844

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    [QUOTE=mr2mk1hero;1621161]Hi everyone, and thanks for having me on the forum.

    This is my first post, and it will be a long one.

    If you watch youtube and occassionally type 4age or mr2 in the search box, you might already know me, I'm the guy behind the driving 4 answers channel and here is my bike carb converted 4age engine!


    hey, buddy.

    i watch yr channel, got some great info from you.
    good luck with yr tacho. I used the same as above with the relay.
    the haltech site showns the wiring of the tacho booster also.
    here..https://www.haltech.com/wp-content/u...ho-Output1.pdf

  10. #10
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    FBiH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    [QUOTE=Omegaman;1621198]
    Quote Originally Posted by mr2mk1hero View Post
    Hi everyone, and thanks for having me on the forum.

    This is my first post, and it will be a long one.

    If you watch youtube and occassionally type 4age or mr2 in the search box, you might already know me, I'm the guy behind the driving 4 answers channel and here is my bike carb converted 4age engine!


    hey, buddy.

    i watch yr channel, got some great info from you.
    good luck with yr tacho. I used the same as above with the relay.
    the haltech site showns the wiring of the tacho booster also.
    here..https://www.haltech.com/wp-content/u...ho-Output1.pdf

    Hey man thanks a lot for that! I bought a relay yesterday and tried hooking it up with just the coil from the relay. The tacho came alive for like 2 seconds, bounced around a bit and died. I bought a 1k ohm resistor today and will give that a shot next, as it's in your shcematic. Hope it works

    - - - Updated - - -



    So here's the reason progress has been slow recently with my aw11 bike carb 4age build. I have been working on improving the design of my crankshaft position sensor bracket for the 4age engine and putting it on the market. Compared to my prototype and version 1.0 which was rough and made on a lathe the latest version is made on a CNC and it's simpler, smoother and just plain old better.


    I spent a lot of time trying to find a local cnc company willing to work on a batch small enough and willing to change and improve the design as we go. I have to say that I am a bit proud of this and I think it's a really nice and elegant solution for adding a crankshaft position sensor to a 4age engine, and something that will be useful for the 4age community. I am selling these at 55 USD (international shipping included in the price), which is definitely a lot less than trying to have a custom one off solution made from scratch.

    Just like my last one it's made out of a solid piece of aluminium so there is zero chance of any interference with the crankshaft position sensor signal.
    Install is dead simple as the bracket bolts into two bolt holes on the exhaust side of the 4age oil pump, this and the fact that it's a solid piece means vibrations are a non-issue. The only thing that's untested is fitment with AC, but I already have a volunteer that will test it so I will update with that info as soon as I have it.






    It can be used with both single and dual row crankshaft pulleys and various trigger wheels as both the height of the bracket and the protrusion of the sensor head can easily be adjusted with washers

    If you need one, you can buy it on my little site/blog/shop:
    http://www.driving4answers.com/produ...-angle-sensor/
    or on eBay:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-4age...t/263717534425

  11. #11
    ToyotaCarClub.net Domestic Engineer Starfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    694

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    I've been enjoying your videos; you get a great mix of instruction and humour and your build is interesting so far.

    Cheers,
    Terry
    1987 AW11 MR2 Supercharger (4AGZE)
    1974 TA22 Celica (2TG bored and stroked)

    Thanks to James Cameron's Terminator films, we know that robots are stronger, faster, tougher and more Austrian than the rest of us.

  12. #12
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    FBiH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfire View Post
    I've been enjoying your videos; you get a great mix of instruction and humour and your build is interesting so far.

    Cheers,
    Terry
    Thanks so much man! I really appreciate that

  13. #13
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    FBiH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    So I seem to be missing something with getting the stock tacho to work.

    Here's what I did:

    Got a standard automotive relay. Opened it up. Removed the 87 pin connections from coil. Removed moving part of coil. I left pin 30 (12v directly from battery) connected to coil as I assumed it doesn't matter. I have a wire supplying 12v to my carb fuel pump. I got my 12v from that wire and attached it to pin 85 (one end of the coil). I got a wire from pin 86 (other end of the coil) and connected it to my tachometer output from my nodiz ignition ecu. I then connected those two to a single wire and connected that single wire to the wire going to the tacho. All I get is a tiny tacho needle bounce upon starting the engine and that's it. It just dies after that. I seem to be on the right track as there was no bouncing at all before this but....Am I doing something wrong?
    Last edited by mr2mk1hero; 01-06-2018 at 05:51 AM.

  14. #14
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic jondee86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    369

    Post Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    The relay coil system only works if the tacho output on your ECU switches to ground. Switching to ground allows current to flow thru the coil, and when the flow is interupted, the collapsing magnetic field in the coil generates the voltage spike for the tachometer.

    If your NODIZ actually provides a 5V or 12V pulsed output, then the relay coil system will not work. Pulsed outputs (square wave outputs) are used to drive most modern and aftermarket tachometers. Can you find out what kind of output the NODIZ ECU provides ?



    If it is a pulsed output you will need to need to devise a system like that shown in the above pic. This system uses the pulsed output to switch a transistor that in turn switches the 12V from the coil to ground.

    Cheers... jondee86
    Last edited by jondee86; 01-06-2018 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Found a pic...

  15. #15
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    FBiH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: My bike carb converted 4AGE AW11

    I probably should have explained this before. The NODIZ outputs a 12V peak to peak square wave at 50% duty.

    http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/thr...-Booster/page2

    Found the thread! Thanks so much jondee. Making this is the next step Hope this works

    Another thing. What AFRs should I be aiming for with the carbs. My AEM wideband tells me I am around 12:1 right now at idle? Open throttle is still too lean but I will fix that later. Trying to get a decent low throttle first so I can keep the car running without fearing knock. Ran the engine at 18:1 for half a minute and then shut it off
    Last edited by mr2mk1hero; 01-06-2018 at 10:51 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Don't know how to delete thread
    By Slousebox in forum Cars and Parts Wanted
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21-07-2017, 06:06 PM
  2. 4AGE NA AW11 MR2 Not starting, need help
    By frany in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 29-11-2016, 02:18 PM
  3. ITB conversion on a FWD or AW11 4AGE 16v
    By dnegative in forum FAQ
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-08-2015, 10:34 AM
  4. 4age single Carb conversion
    By kiwi in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-03-2015, 11:24 AM
  5. 86/AW11 4AGE ECU for 2TGE?
    By Radar in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-04-2010, 10:38 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •