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Thread: 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

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    Taking Toymods Offroad!!! Automotive Encyclopaedia Toyo Truck's Avatar
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    Default 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

    Hey guys,

    I posted this up on the Z20 fb page, and the Z20 anonymous page...not many of the old blokes in there these days.
    Doing more serious things like I SHOULD be lol...

    But Wiring gurus if ya still on here I need your help!!

    I am putting a 1JZGTE + R154 combo (previously out of a Z20 into an Z21 shell). The swap is done and all bolted in with all new bits
    But now I cant get it to start again.
    It used to start run and boost very very adequately with no real issues really. So I figured it would be easy...but I'm stuck getting it powered up and kicking over...but I'm close

    So far...
    I got power to the ECU (via powering the BATT, B+, B1 and IGSW pins in the ECU) and I can see volts at "W" ECU pins to make sure of this.
    I have the dash lighting up the speedo (at 0 of course) and all the other cool digi light things.
    I have wired up the Starter Motor to the key in the Z20 (middle plug of Z20 fat square plug in glovebox). It "clicks" but wont turn as test battery is a bit weak so will swap to another and be ok.

    But main issue seems I have no power to the MAIN RELAY so nothing is happening in the engine bay. Including fuel pump. So it ain't gonna start even if I had a fresh battery.

    Upon closer inspection of the ECU (Plug 85 I think) wiring of the M-REL pin to the 1JZ loom, its missing altogether, only the grey plug is in the ECU with no wires from prev install in same car.
    I can repin that easy enough, but I need to know what wire in the soarer to connect it to. OR can I run a new one...whats the go here boys?

    Thanks in advance guys. I wanna go boost this thing stat.

    NOTE:- Prev install by prev owner has jumped the B+ to FP pins in the DIAG BOX. So I assume this is why the fuel pump would constantly whir no matter what the second key turned. Is the main relay the thing that powers B+ in the diag box (aswell as everything else like ISCV and all the other sensors etc??) I presume this power is not coming from the ECU as it could damage the unit in the case of a short etc...hence why I assume it has to be the main relay.

    Sorry if that is a noob AF question...but my previous engine conversion I did by myself was a 3.8L commo into a 22R carb hilux, so I only had an IGN and START wire to work with off the key barrel. Such easy wiring and much simpler motors...cause 'merica
    2001 FZJ105 Landcruiser - Daily/Tow Truck
    1989 LN106 Hilux Crawler - ARB Air Lockers, DUALS, 35"s +++
    1989 JZZ20 Soarer - BIIIG Single, Schwweeeet Gateage
    1989 GZ20 Soarer - Restoration Project

  2. #2
    Toymods Club Member Backyard Mechanic auto351's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

    Hi.
    Question what wiring diagrams are you using (can you share the link)?
    Its not clear whether the fuel pump is running or not , you indicated the B+ was jumped to FP have you removed this ?

    Normally there are two relays involved with powering the system, the main relay which power injectors and ECU but some cars have 3 relays involved
    The "Main Relay" come directly off the Ignition keys switch (IG2). and usually power the injectors if it has 3 relays (also from IG2) then this 3rd one powers the ECU +B and +B1 (and is called the EFI relay)
    while the fuel relay has two coils one paralleled with the starter solenoid to provide fuel when cranking the second coil comes from the FP pin on the ECU and this keeps the pump running while the engine runs.

    if your Main Relay is not energizing I would check the wiring back to the Ignition key switch and fuses.

    The W pin gets it power from IG1 Ignition key switch.
    But if the B+ B1+ pins have power them the main relay must be coming on. what makes you think its not ON?

    What is that clicking sound, is it the starter solenoid or a Relay?

    M.

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    Default Re: 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

    Hi Mate,

    Thanks for awesome response. it has helped alot mate cheers.
    OK So I got it wrong after reading your attempt.
    after months of doing the engine conversion, and it being out of the same model soarer shell I thought Id just start it up before cleaning up and finishing the install.
    My conversion dreams kind of stopped here, hence the post.
    Let me also say the PO has made a bit of a mess of the 1JZGTE loom, but that said it did used to run and I daily'd it for ages with no issues before conversion.

    Let me explain a bit more..apologies for being vague.
    When I put a battery into the soarer (PO relocated it to boot for 2JZGTE conv) all the interior lights, headlights, taillights, auto tilt steering wheel, etc all come to life. So the body has power to it.

    So when I hit the key to 'ON' this should power the main relay in the engine bay, which in turn powers the other relays in the bonnet? I'll check all of this asap.
    btw what is the M-REL pin on the ECU for? I assume this is not important as its not even connected to a wire out of the plug and ran ok like this?

    -HERE IS WHAT I TRIED THUS FAR-
    I read somewhere if I powered up BATT, B+, B and IGSW on the ECU pins it would power up.
    So on this advice I checked all earths and replaced any that were dodgy, now I get earth readings on every part of the engine and bay. I also confirmed good earth at ECU pins E01 etc.
    I then ran a wire from battery (constant 12V) to the ECU BATT pin.
    NOTE:- this whole plug off the ecu pretty much only has wires left connected to pins BATT, B+, B and IGSW and looks like it all just powered up when you flicked the key to 'ON'
    I am guessing this should all come from the engine loom except IGSW which is the key right?

    I found a wire inside the vehicle body loom that sends 12v to the plug in the glovebox (above ecu) from the key in 'ON' and 'START' position. Wired this to B+, B and IGSW pins.
    Now the ECU has earth and 12v, and I tested it powers up the W pin so an earthed check light goes off.

    I then located the wires that energize with 12v from the key on 'START' position only and ran this to what I beleive is the starter motor solonoid. So it clicks loudly when I try off the key now.
    the click is sounding like trying to start a car with a dead battery. So I need to charge it up or jump it asap. but I do have 12v so I'll look into that later.

    Other than that, I have nothing else. Cant hear fuel pump, cant hear ISCV etc? sounds like nothing in the engine bay is working.
    NOTE:- I think if B+ pin in Diag box saw 12v it is jumped to FP and it should just run at full ball all the time (it used to do this and I'm fine to keep this for now just to start her)
    2001 FZJ105 Landcruiser - Daily/Tow Truck
    1989 LN106 Hilux Crawler - ARB Air Lockers, DUALS, 35"s +++
    1989 JZZ20 Soarer - BIIIG Single, Schwweeeet Gateage
    1989 GZ20 Soarer - Restoration Project

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    RZN169R+2JZGTEVVTI+R151 Domestic Engineer madmont's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

    [QUOTE

    So when I hit the key to 'ON' this should power the main relay in the engine bay, which in turn powers the other relays in the bonnet? I'll check all of this asap.
    btw what is the M-REL pin on the ECU for? I assume this is not important as its not even connected to a wire out of the plug and ran ok like this?

    )[/QUOTE]
    M-REL powers up the EFI relay
    Jealousy is a curse

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    Taking Toymods Offroad!!! Automotive Encyclopaedia Toyo Truck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

    Yeah I thought this might be the case from what I read on wilbos AWESOME wiring website.

    but previous owner/install hasn't got any wires coming out of the M-REL plug from the ECU,
    so he must've bypassed this somehow? as its never been connected and as said ran perfectly in donor z20.
    Guessing he just wired the main relay to IGN power along with BATT, B+, B and IGSW.

    I'll have to keep digging.
    Any other help or advice much appreciated lads

    So if I pin the M-REL into the plug do I just run this wire to the main relay?
    2001 FZJ105 Landcruiser - Daily/Tow Truck
    1989 LN106 Hilux Crawler - ARB Air Lockers, DUALS, 35"s +++
    1989 JZZ20 Soarer - BIIIG Single, Schwweeeet Gateage
    1989 GZ20 Soarer - Restoration Project

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    RZN169R+2JZGTEVVTI+R151 Domestic Engineer madmont's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

    Follow the wiring diagram.
    Jealousy is a curse

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    Toymods Club Member Backyard Mechanic auto351's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Toyo Truck View Post

    So when I hit the key to 'ON' this should power the main relay in the engine bay, which in turn powers the other relays in the bonnet? I'll check all of this asap.
    btw what is the M-REL pin on the ECU for? I assume this is not important as its not even connected to a wire out of the plug and ran ok like this?
    Typically The IG2 Energizes the Relay by providing 12V to one side of the relay Coil (and switching it on).

    The M-REL is the Main Relay output from the ECU, but I assumed your Main Relay coil to be wired directly from IG2 as you mentioned M-REL on ECU was not connected.

    What wiring diagram are you working from ? This would be the starting point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Toyo Truck View Post

    I am guessing this should all come from the engine loom except IGSW which is the key right?
    Check the ECU is working correctly , To Check the ECU is working, you simple use a paperclip or a short wire loop to bridge the connections E1 and TE1 on the diagnostic connector, the ECU will flash any error codes, if it flashes with an even duty cycle then no errors are present and a good sign the ECU is connected & working

    If this works then I would think the ECU and sensors are all wired/powered correctly

    Quote Originally Posted by Toyo Truck View Post

    Now the ECU has earth and 12v, and I tested it powers up the W pin so an earthed check light goes off.
    Not sure what you are doing here you should be earthing TE1 as above E1 shorted to TE1

    Quote Originally Posted by Toyo Truck View Post

    I then located the wires that energize with 12v from the key on 'START' position only and ran this to what I beleive is the starter motor solonoid. So it clicks loudly when I try off the key now.
    the click is sounding like trying to start a car with a dead battery. So I need to charge it up or jump it asap. but I do have 12v so I'll look into that later.
    From What you have written , sound like its progressing.

    after you check the ECU is OK
    You need to confirm you have power to the fuel injectors.
    You have indicated the BATT+ B1+ B+ E0 are all connected and powered.

    As you confirmed the starter Solenoid is that clicking sound , there must be a problem with it or the switched side is not wired correctly , I assuming you have a good battery now.

    if All the above are checked and OK it should at-least try and start.

    M.

    Don't worry about the M-REL wire at this stage.

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    Taking Toymods Offroad!!! Automotive Encyclopaedia Toyo Truck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1JZGTE into MZ21 -> Starting issues...so close yet so far!!

    Thanks mate,

    Now that I understand how it works a bit better I'll do some more checking this long weekend.
    Its really close as I only cut like 6 wires to get it out of the other donor z20 so its just a case of working out what old mate did to get it running in the original z20.
    You dont want a bit of extra coin to come wire it up for me do ya? For someone experienced it would literally be just a quick check of the usual plugs and away.
    I just dont know 1JZGTEs that well. Been suffering with commo 3.8s too long. this thing is years ahead in terms of complexity and output.
    2001 FZJ105 Landcruiser - Daily/Tow Truck
    1989 LN106 Hilux Crawler - ARB Air Lockers, DUALS, 35"s +++
    1989 JZZ20 Soarer - BIIIG Single, Schwweeeet Gateage
    1989 GZ20 Soarer - Restoration Project

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