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Thread: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

  1. #1
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    Question ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Hi friends,

    I am swapping a 3SGTE 4gen (from Caldina ST215 A/T) into my Toyota Celica ST162 3SGE, and I am having problems with starting the engine.

    I have the engine mounted on the car, with my old manual transmission and I have a few wires from ECU connected. I already have connected the A and B groups from the ECU because the engine came with wiring harness and ECU. And from D group, I have connected:
    • D-1: To battery (+)
    • D-3: To my old ST162 relay (I have tried in battery positive too)
    • D-16: To ignition, when I start


    When I try to start the engine with my key, engine cranks, i have fuel but no spark. I have the coil with a spark plug now, to see and check if there is spark, but no spark.

    I have headache with this for some days, I have the ECU pinout colors and diagrams, but no success.

    I have try also add some wires, for trying (because it was A/T ECU):
    • C-20: To ground (P, N position)
    • C-18 to ground (manual mode)


    The reason of the title is that I would like to start the engine only with neccesary wires from the ECU, to test the engine. Then I will connect the rest.

    If you need some images, videos, information, please tell me. The image from ST215 ECU pinout colors I have is http://imgur.com/a/BH8ZX. In the image i don't understand the asterisks (*) and dashes (-, --) in the colors description.

    Please if any could help me, I would be very grateful.

    Sorry if my english is bad, and Thank you in advance.

    Regards,

  2. #2
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    D1 goes to Battery, after the 15A EFI fuse
    D3 _grounds_ the "circuit opening relay" coil via the ECU. so the relays coil needs power on the other side.
    D16 receives power from the EFI relay power side (ie, IGN power)

    C20 does go to neutral start switch but is a bit confusing.
    it looks like power comes from the 5A starter fuse, and goes to C20. A wire goes from between that fuse and C20, goes through the neutral starter switch, and connects to pin C8 (start). (take that with a grain of salt.. i'm not 100% sure)

    C18 is not connected on my diagram for the ECU.
    C18 is connected on the transmission diagram, for 3SGTE engine, and does appear to eventually go to earth.


    in the engine circuit diagram, the D plug is (e)F38, the C plug is (h)F39
    in transmission diagram C plug is (D)F39
    Last edited by oldcorollas; 27-04-2017 at 11:30 PM.
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  3. #3
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    on engine diagram, plug D (F38) the following wires are connected
    1 (Batt),
    3 (grounds circuit opening relay),
    6 (check engine light),
    7 (is grounded through some power steering switch?),
    10 (intake temp sensor number 2),
    11 (SIL),
    13 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer ENG- pin),
    14 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer ENG+ pin),
    15 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer NEO pin),
    16 (connects to IGN switched power),
    18 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer TRC- pin),
    19 (I think goes to rear defogger via a diode?),
    21 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer TRC+ pin)

    on engine diagram, plug C (F39) the following wires are connected
    5 (TC?),
    13 (aircon ECU ACT pin),
    14 (aircon ECU TW pin),
    17 (BPC+ "intake bulb actuator" M+ pin?),
    20 (to between starter fuse and neutral start switch),
    22 (SPD),
    25 (aircon ECU AC1 pin),
    26 (BPC- "intake bulb actuator" M- pin?),
    27 (TACH)
    Last edited by oldcorollas; 27-04-2017 at 10:54 PM.
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post
    D1 goes to Battery, after the 15A EFI fuse
    D3 _grounds_ the "circuit opening relay" coil via the ECU. so the relays coil needs power on the other side.
    D16 receives power from the EFI relay power side (ie, IGN power)

    C20 does go to neutral start switch but is a bit confusing.
    it looks like power comes from the 5A starter fuse, and goes to C20. A wire goes from between that fuse and C20, goes through the neutral starter switch, and connects to pin C8 (start). (take that with a grain of salt.. i'm not 100% sure)

    C18 is not connected on my diagram for the ECU.
    C18 is connected on the transmission diagram, for 3SGTE engine, and does appear to eventually go to earth.


    in the engine circuit diagram, the D plug is (e)F38, the C plug is (h)F39
    in transmission diagram C plug is (D)F39
    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post
    on engine diagram, plug D (F38) the following wires are connected
    1 (Batt),
    3 (grounds circuit opening relay),
    6 (check engine light),
    7 (is grounded through some power steering switch?),
    10 (intake temp sensor number 2),
    11 (SIL),
    13 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer ENG- pin),
    14 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer ENG+ pin),
    15 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer NEO pin),
    16 (connects to IGN switched power),
    18 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer TRC- pin),
    19 (I think goes to rear defogger via a diode?),
    21 (ABS/TRC/VSC computer TRC+ pin)

    on engine diagram, plug C (F39) the following wires are connected
    5 (TC?),
    13 (aircon ECU ACT pin),
    14 (aircon ECU TW pin),
    17 (BPC+ "intake bulb actuator" M+ pin?),
    20 (to between starter fuse and neutral start switch),
    22 (SPD),
    25 (aircon ECU AC1 pin),
    26 (BPC- "intake bulb actuator" M- pin?),
    27 (TACH)
    @oldcorollas, thank you very much for your reply, your answer seems very sure and reliable.

    Tomorrow I'm going to check my plug D and I will study your replies.

    I don't want to spend your time, but, would you have a simple scheme or drawing with de "D1, D3, D16" connections?

    Thank you
    Regards,

  5. #5
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    hope this helps

    this is the plug (labelled e on the diagram ECU connections)


    and this shows the connections for D1, D3 and D16.
    red is permanent power from battery
    yellow is power from EFI relay
    light blue is the wire that grounds the circuit opening relay to trigger it.
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post
    hope this helps

    this is the plug (labelled e on the diagram ECU connections)


    and this shows the connections for D1, D3 and D16.
    red is permanent power from battery
    yellow is power from EFI relay
    light blue is the wire that grounds the circuit opening relay to trigger it.
    Great man!!
    I'm going to try it and I will post. Thank you!

    Regards,

  7. #7
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post
    hope this helps

    this is the plug (labelled e on the diagram ECU connections)

    and this shows the connections for D1, D3 and D16.
    red is permanent power from battery
    yellow is power from EFI relay
    light blue is the wire that grounds the circuit opening relay to trigger it.
    Hi friend,

    I still haven't got spark to the coils.

    I have followed your image but no success; but I haven't used the EFI relay yet because I haven't got enough time last week. I put the yellow wire directly in D3.

    Do you know if is "fuel pump running (via EFI, not bridged)" needed to get spark and start the engine?

    Please ask me if you have any question or you don't understand 100% me.

    Thank you so much!!

  8. #8
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    EFI relay is just a relay triggered by the IGN power, to reduce load on the ignition switch.

    D3 just grounds the circuit opening relay when the engine is running (so it turns things off when engine stops), so if you don't have circuit opening relay, D3 doesn't need to go to anything, and you do not want to put it directly to battery power!! it likely needs the resistance of the relay coil to reduce the current going through D3

    The Circuit opening relay turns on and controls the fuel pump (in above diagram)
    should not need power to fuel pump to get spark.

    the 4 igniters have 2 connections each. both connections come from the ECU

    on my diagram, one set of connections comes from plug "g", pins g9, g10, g19, g20 (called ION1, ION2, ION3, ION4)
    plug g is also called B47. this is plug B on your image link here http://imgur.com/a/BH8ZX

    The other connection is on plug f, pins f10, f11, f12, f13. (called IGT, IGT2, IGT3, IGT4)
    plug f is also called B48. this is plug A on your image link here http://imgur.com/a/BH8ZX

    if you have plugs A and B connected, then.. should spark if it is getting the right rpm signals?
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post
    EFI relay is just a relay triggered by the IGN power, to reduce load on the ignition switch.

    D3 just grounds the circuit opening relay when the engine is running (so it turns things off when engine stops), so if you don't have circuit opening relay, D3 doesn't need to go to anything, and you do not want to put it directly to battery power!! it likely needs the resistance of the relay coil to reduce the current going through D3

    The Circuit opening relay turns on and controls the fuel pump (in above diagram)
    should not need power to fuel pump to get spark.

    the 4 igniters have 2 connections each. both connections come from the ECU

    on my diagram, one set of connections comes from plug "g", pins g9, g10, g19, g20 (called ION1, ION2, ION3, ION4)
    plug g is also called B47. this is plug B on your image link here http://imgur.com/a/BH8ZX

    The other connection is on plug f, pins f10, f11, f12, f13. (called IGT, IGT2, IGT3, IGT4)
    plug f is also called B48. this is plug A on your image link here http://imgur.com/a/BH8ZX

    if you have plugs A and B connected, then.. should spark if it is getting the right rpm signals?
    Hi friend thank you very much for you reply, your time and your explanations.

    So, I understand correctly, if I'm not sure about D3 connector I can try to not connect the D3 pin wire to anything.

    And, yes, I had A and B plugs connected and I haven't modify anything from A and B.

    I don't understand correctly your last question. How works the rpm signal? Is there any pin for this?

    Thank you!
    Regards,

  10. #10
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    yes, the D3 is there for the ECU to trigger a relay for the fuel pump (and turn off the pump when engine is not running)

    The ECu gets engine speed information from at least a cam sensor, will check later.
    I would have thought with A and B connected, it should try and start.. will check diagrams later
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post
    yes, the D3 is there for the ECU to trigger a relay for the fuel pump (and turn off the pump when engine is not running)

    The ECu gets engine speed information from at least a cam sensor, will check later.
    I would have thought with A and B connected, it should try and start.. will check diagrams later
    Thanks friend

  12. #12
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    how is your Japanese? I can help with that a bit..
    Please save these in case they get removed.
    click on the image, then click on "view raw image" at the bottom, and save

    http://oi64.tinypic.com/2lvfj8h.jpg
    http://oi66.tinypic.com/ajs8bq.jpg
    http://oi64.tinypic.com/a4x4q0.jpg
    http://oi64.tinypic.com/1z32xvt.jpg
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  13. #13
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post
    how is your Japanese? I can help with that a bit..
    Please save these in case they get removed.
    click on the image, then click on "view raw image" at the bottom, and save

    http://oi64.tinypic.com/2lvfj8h.jpg
    http://oi66.tinypic.com/ajs8bq.jpg
    http://oi64.tinypic.com/a4x4q0.jpg
    http://oi64.tinypic.com/1z32xvt.jpg
    Hi friend! Thank you for the images.

    I think I have found these info translated into English if it can helps, but after reading this I cant guess what I'm failing because I still haven't got power at coils .

    I have attached the file (10 pages Pdf). Please tell me if something is wrong.

    Thank you!! Regards,https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/59258c33...%20diagram.pdf

  14. #14
    I definitely ain't a Chief Engine Builder wagonist's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Old thread revival (cos you can do that on forum... )
    OC, do you have the pinouts for the other plugs (3 of them I think) that join the engine loom to the body loom behind the glovebox.
    I thought I traced all of the wires myself when I last had the engine out about a year ago to do the clutch, but can't find my diagrams...

  15. #15
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST215 3SGTE: Which wires from ECU are required to start the engine?

    Which plugs?
    I have toyota full wiring book for the dina

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