Which motor for the RA23??

[o_man_ra23]

Ok, this might not look so technical from the title, but im asking for technical reasons for or against particular motors. Anyone who says crap like "nah, i reckon XXGTE motor is teh poo, you shouldnt use it, use XXGTE cause i like it" will be neg repped.

My original thoughts were 3SGTE... excellent motor, much can be done with it, strong out of the box, smooth, reliable etc etc.

Unfortunately due to having a motorbike accident, and trying to save for an overpriced house, I may not have the finances for this for a while.

So, the options are:

3SGTE - stick it out and do it slowly

1GGTE - strong motor, can be found inexpensively, easy to install.

3TGTE - same as 1GGTE, but no mod to tacho, cheaper on rego

18RC - teh poo poo but free conversion, and itll get me back on the road till i have more money for the 3S conversion, but turns my RA40 into a scrap pile.

1JZGTE - teh poo motor, difficult conversion(length), probably not really an option I would go for

4AGZE - small capacity probably not the best for a heavy car, and supercharger would later have to be replaced by turbo

Anything else Ive had a mind blank on?? Please, no suggestions of non-Toyota engines, there is no way in hell that a non-Toyota engine is gettin into my RA23, so it would be a waste of valuable posts.

Any technical reasons for or against, including cost issues, fitment issues etc will be very helpful, and pos rep is a reward offered for such information.

Cheers, Owen

[merc-blue]

my vote goes to the 1G.
It has been done many times and plenty of people can assist you, the 3TGTE wouldnt be bad but if you are going to spend time and money you may aswell go the option with more prospects
there are lots more 1Gs left in the world than 3Ts also alot more people make aftermarket performance parts for a 1G over a 3T

[WDE_BDY]

Why no mention of the 18RG? Seems an obvious choice to me. And River will hunt you down if you don't put it in so may be the safest option.

Callum

[merc-blue]

i can see a few reasons, firstly parts for them are getting harder to get and thats never good, also power, looking at the types of engines to vote from everyting except the 18Rc are all forced induction so i assume hes looking for abit of power,
the 18RG is capable but when building a smaller lower powered engine to be beasty you shorten its life span, and you cant afford to do that with a engine where parts are getting harder to find and more expensive

[o_man_ra23]

Ive had 18RG previously, and am after a lot more power with a stock/stockish engine. One of the key points here which i havent made clear enough is that it must be smooth, as the car will eventually be donated to the missus when I do up an RA28.

Cheers, Owen

[timbosaurus]

Hi Owen,

Personally, i would suggest wait it out and do it properly. I dont like the idea of spending substantial money doing something you know is not what you want and will be redone later.

The options I'd consider, in reverse order of preference, are:

3) Take the '23 off the road, have it sitting in your driveway, drive the camry/RA40, collect 3S-GTE parts as you can afford them and do the engine you really want.
Pros: only spend as much as you need to do the conversion
Cons: having a crappy daily driver, the depression of having your baby heartless in the driveway for extended period of time.

2) Sell the camry and use the money to put a 1G/3T/18RGEU in the '23. Save up for the 3S.
Pros: you get a more powerful and possibly better running (EFI) motor in the meantime, AND you can get rid of the camry
Cons: You end up having to pay for 2 conversions... your car will prolly not be ready in a weekend, and unless you use the 18RGEU, your car will need engineering just for the temporary engine.


1) Put the 18R-C in from the RA40, drive the '23, sell the camry and put the money towards the savings for the 3S-GTE.
Pros: only spend as much as you need to do the conversion you want, you get an exciting -looking daily, you can get rid of the camry Could be driving in a weekend.
Cons: You have to pull apart the RA40 - but it can put it back together when your ready to put in the 3S-GTE. Then you still have the RA40 (better than a camry ) to drive daily as your doing the 3S swap!


This is just what i think mate, i know you asked for technical reasons, but this is simply logistical. But with the number one preference you dont need to know which engine is superior... just that you use the technically "p00" motor and have a nice looking daily in the meantime, and you dont waste any unnecessary $$$ while you save up for your killer 3S, technically superior super-duper power packet!

/out

[o_man_ra23]

Timbo,
1)the camry in my sig isnt mine, i just have to pay for the damages i caused to it.

2)the RA40 will be sold if not pulled apart, the motorbike is my daily driver... 18RC is only an option for very extended period delay in conversion. I dont have the room to store the RA40 if i pull it apart, so it would become a cube with the 18RC option.

3)Im not doing 2 conversions... just not gonna happen, so whatever motor gets decided upon will be the motor that stays there till the car goes to heaven (not sellin the car)

Fair comments otherwise.

Cheers, Owen

[timbosaurus]

ah.... gotcha mate.

Well, my opinion is the 3S-GTE. Not because it is technically better, but simply cos it's what you have your heart set on.

Nothing worse than driving a 1G powered car wishing you had that later model turbo 4 under the hood. Ok... maybe driving an 18R-C powered car is worse, but you get my point

Aside from that reason, i would stick to a turbo 4 cylinder for ease of fitment, rego cost, and weight distribution. I couldn't come to drop capacity from 2-litres, and i cetainly wouldn't want an engine older than about 15 years so that leave the 3S-GTE as the only option i could think of

So start saving my friend

[river]

Hi,

Go the 1GGTE.

Because it is a cheaper upgrade then the 3S. It will give you plenty of power and you'll have some fun with it. Many people here have done the conversion and can assist you and offer technical input. It will also save you using an 18RG which means there's a spare one out there for people like me.

The 3S would be the only other option (since we are not using an 18RG) but the cost and work invovled maybe too much for you at this point in time. Perhaps at some point in the future you can revisit this option, but in the interim the 1GGTE will give you much happiness for quite some time.

However, if you're using a 1GGTE or 3S you'll need to upgrade your brakes, diff and gearbox 'cos the stock RA23LT (I assume it's an LT) drivetrain won't last long with this much power, and even less if you do burn outs and thump the gears and clutch and stuff like that.

seeyuzz
river

[WDE_BDY]

Well if the 18RG is out, I would definitely go for the 1G-GTE based on the all important $$$'s for fun ratio. 3S-GTE while a good engine is not really a cost effective option, any handling set backs from the straight 6 can easily be accomodated with the money and time you will save.

Callum

[o_man_ra23]

burnouts maybe, thumping clutch... not my style. A good burnout can be performed without putting nasty shockloads on drivetrain components, you just need more torque.

No matter the outcome of engine, front brakes will be the hoppers kit with slotted rotors, diff will be RN2x hilux with torsen centre and supra brakes, there will be coilovers up front probably with adjustable dampners, gearbox will probably end up a W58.

Technical input isnt of huge consequence, i was fully prepared to do the 3SGTE with the limited knowledge available, and probably do my own custom engine mounts etc. I know fitter machinists and boilermakers and the like, so custom fabrication isnt going to cost as much as what it would other people, but there are certainly other things like custom flywheels for 3Ss which make them more expensive... also there is the chance of the backward intake causing woes.

Cheers, Owen

[timbosaurus]

Well if the 18RG is out, I would definitely go for the 1G-GTE based on the all important $$$'s for fun ratio. 3S-GTE while a good engine is not really a cost effective option, any handling set backs from the straight 6 can easily be accomodated with the money and time you will save.

Callum

Yeah, i certainly cant deny the bang for ur buck and ease of installation of a 1G!!! They've got that for sure!!!

And my knowledge of what is actually required in a 3S conversion into a '23 is well lacking. I'll think i should just crawl back into my hole... with my 18R-C...

[barned01]

if fabrication isn't an issue have you considered a 1uz...tis my dream!
Engine is newish, smooth, powerful, potentially much more powerful, light (comparably), a v8.
You could have used ra40 for test fitment purposes (but you are selling it so you can't i guess).
Realistically, don't play with the cars until you have sorted your other finances out, this is the issue i am having, the house sucks a shite load of money away from your project.
Collect the little bits when you can spare a couple of hundered and just keep it ready for when you can spend the time and money properly.

The longer you wait the more likely someone will have cracked the magical combination of parts to make this a suitably affordable swap as well.

do your diff and rear brakes, do your front brakes, upgrade your gearbox and driveline, strengthen parts of your chassis, fix some interior and then suddenly 2 years has passed before your very eyes and you haven't even touched the engine yet...by then the choice will be eaisier...even 3s conversions would be cracked for making affordable kits to fit them in the 23/8/40.

GT's 3vz conversion utilising all of your existing driveline from the w50 gearbox back with the use of his adaptor plate, may proove an interesting choice as well, and by the time you get aroud to it, again people would have reported on the best way to do this particular conversion as well.


Bottom line...don't worry about the engine, get the car running with whatever means are available (18rc), fix up the stuff that doesn't take the car off the road for extended time and significant costs (brakes, driveline, diff, interior, fuelling), and visit engine options when you are ready to actually put the engine in.

then choose the 1uz and use the method, mwp or fuzz or myself or anyone else doing the conversion has worked out already to make your life easier

[TurboRA28]

3S-GTE I am biased I suppose! But such a great engine, fits in the bay nicely, makes good power easy, very smooth.
Plenty of upgrade parts avaliable for it (a good example, forged arias pistons & eagle h beam rods package for under $900!). Heaps of things though like cams & valves etc readily avaliable.
Doesn't crowd the engine bay like a 1ggte would.

[o_man_ra23]

Barned, more than 6 cyls is out of the question... just not going to happen. Car is already off the road, has been since december last year, and will probably stay that way if i start on the conversion. My income is pretty good, and i guess the bike crash is only a temporary setback, but it still impedes greatly on a home loan. This is why if i can save a few gorillas, or save time so i can work more hours, then something other than a 3S will become an option. At this stage im still yet to see any strong evidence for another motor, or against the 3S, its just such a beautifully designed motor to start with.

Joel, of course your biased, but you have a point with the engine bay crowding.

Cheers, Owen