LS1 coils on 1JZ

[jjw001]

I'm currently trying to sort out fueling, ignition issues with the 1jz I've fitted to my 1969 Valiant Hardtop (not as heavy as you think, 1390kgs standard - 1282.8kgs with 1JZ and auto) and I've been told that I can't run LS1 coils in waste spark mode (Haltech E8). Does anyone know for sure? A guy my brother works with at Holden said they won't work in waste spark mode but I've found info on the net saying you can!

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

[CELICASUPRA7M]

pics pics pics!
valiants are the bomb. considering putting a 2j into my VH charger but worried i might be stabbed by the purists haha.

[thechuckster]

LS1 coils are single post ? in which case they can only connect to one spark plug. It follows from assumption that the question(s) should then be:
- can the Haltech E8 drive 2 coils from a single ignition output?
- can 2 LS1 coils be driven from the one Ignition output?

I can't remember whether the LS1 coils have an on-board ingitor and if this is the case, whether the ignitor does dwell control or whether it's managed by the ECU. Those questions further muddy the options when it comes to driving two coils from a single ECU ignition output.

If you are stuck with waste-spark ignition, why not get some M&W 2-post coils? (e.g. specifically designed for waste-spark use).

[jjw001]

LS1 coils are single post ? in which case they can only connect to one spark plug. It follows from assumption that the question(s) should then be:
- can the Haltech E8 drive 2 coils from a single ignition output?
- can 2 LS1 coils be driven from the one Ignition output?

I can't remember whether the LS1 coils have an on-board ingitor and if this is the case, whether the ignitor does dwell control or whether it's managed by the ECU. Those questions further muddy the options when it comes to driving two coils from a single ECU ignition output.

If you are stuck with waste-spark ignition, why not get some M&W 2-post coils? (e.g. specifically designed for waste-spark use).

I've got six of the LS1 coils and I went with them due to the inbuilt ignitor. If someone who seems to know what they are talking about says they don't work in waste spark mode (I am also open to different options with the E8 set up) I'll definitely consider something like the M&W coils.

Cheers

[jjw001]

pics pics pics!
valiants are the bomb. considering putting a 2j into my VH charger but worried i might be stabbed by the purists haha.

The purists are part of the reason I decided to do this ( I haven't had any good experiences with their clubs). Being left for dead at the Yatala BP (meeting point) with new born twins in the car after a uni joint let go wasn't a great experience.

I'll post pictures as soon as I finish working on the driveline and get the car off the jack stands. As far as a 2JZ in a Charger, go for it! I've had all types of modified V8's and hi-po Hemi 6's and they used too much juice (I had a stroker chev in a Brougham once that'd go no more than 200k's on a tank) and they need to be pulled out and rebuilt if you want significantly more horsepower (just a couple of issue's that I went through). If you push a 2JZ too hard, which isn't easy, or do the wrong thing and kill a bottom end, a whole low k engine costs around half of what I spent on rebuilding the last 265 I had.

If you are still worried about the purists, put a bunch of Mopar stickers in the glove box and just throw them on the ground when they are approaching. You can then make a get away while they are fighting over them like sea gulls fight over a chip!

Cheers

[thechuckster]

looks like you can run 2 LS1 coil packs in parallel (run 2 coils off the one ECU output) - tho you do have to set the dwell time on the ECU.

They just need 5V+ signal going high to energise the coil with dwell time being the duration that signal goes high.

A dwell time of 5.5-6.0ms seems to be the going advice for these coils.

Some random reading on the topic:
Official Haltech Forums • View topic - Direct fire on 6 cyl, what ignition coils?
Real Fiero Tech • View topic - LS2 coil packs

If you have noise issues (either the coil misfiring or the ECU getting odd resets from interference from the coils):
(from Megasquirt Sequencer Coils)
An Example: LS1 Coils

Starting in 1997, General Motors used a new (for them) coil-near-plug ignition system for the then new Corvette LS1 engine. The system features eight coils (one per cylinder) mounted on the valve cover, with short spark plug wires to connect the coils to the spark plugs. The General Motors LS1 coils are not just conventional ignition coils. Instead they are complete single-cylinder ignition systems. They contain all the electronics for dwell limiting, current limiting, etc. These coils are controlled directly by a low voltage, low current signal from the sequencer. There is no intervening ignition module (like an EDIS or GM DIS). Because the LS1 coils have the igniters built in, they make for an easy installation and generate less electromagnetic noise in the other wiring under the hood.

The LS1 coil has 4 connections (as well as the high tension terminal for the spark plug wire, of course):

* A = Coil Primary Ground
* B = Ignition low noise ground from ECU (ground)
* C = Ignition digital signal from ECU (+5V)
* D = +12V Supply to Coil Primary



The two capacitors are optional but recommended. The 1.0 &microF capacitor on the +12V is helpful, it is similar to the one used on EDIS. What it does is provide brief energy storage for the discharge. The other capacitor will help eliminate back-fed noise to the MegaSquirt controller. Use a 100 pF to 0.001 µF cap on the TTL trigger input wire to ground. What this does is shunt extremely fast noise spikes to ground and not let them feed back to the MegaSquirt processor. The added capacitance is minimal - with the series resistance of 1,000 ohms (in the controller) and a 100 pF cap the RC 3dB time constant is 2 * π * R * C = 0.6 microseconds.


btw: shame you're not staying with the hemi 6 - is a big, truck-like thing but has oodles of torque from very low down. However, having shifted one of them (in bits, but still fucking heavy) around a workshop, I too would be glad to be rid of the massively heavy block.

[jjw001]

Okay, so I've worked out all should be fine as far as the coils in waste spark goes. Keeping in mind I've converted from the old school of carby's and dizzy's, I thought if I went through the basics of the engine and what I have done one of the many of you that are way more experienced can tell me what I may have done wrong - no injector pulse or spark.

It's basically a standard 1JZ with T67, LS1 coils (6), 880cc injectors, adjustable cam gears (not adjusted at all), holley red lift pump, bosch 044, haltech 3 bar MAP sensor and standard type reluctor crank and cam sensors.

Set up is as follows

Trigger - 1100ohms
Home (front cam sensor) - 1090 ohms

Trigger set up - Multitooth 24-1, full sync, Trigger and home type - Reluctor, Trigger and home signal edge - falling, trigger and home filter level - 2, trigger gain - 0, home gain - 2.
Fuel set up - multipoint, ignition divide by - 3
Ignition set up - trigger angle BTDC - 94, tooth offset - 9, spark mode - wasted spark, ign spark edge - falling, dwell mode - constant charge, constant charge time - 2.5ms, spark break time - 600us

Base timing is at 10deg and I've checked all the wiring many times over but I'm always up for another check if someone says I have to have stuffed something up in the wiring.

I am hoping there's an obvious big fat mistake in there for those in the know. I'd rather be called an idiot and get it fired than go through another week of searching.

Cheers

[thechuckster]

i think the dwell/ constant charge time should be somewhere from 5.5 to 6 m/s.

However, you need to sort out the trigger settings and that'll need a 1J+helltech expert (e.g. not me).

Would be safer to disconnect the power source to the ignition coils and injectors while testing your trigger input/settings. When cranking you should see ~300rpm at the ECU, if not then get that sorted before heading back to checking for spark and squirt.

[CELICASUPRA7M]

The purists are part of the reason I decided to do this ( I haven't had any good experiences with their clubs). Being left for dead at the Yatala BP (meeting point) with new born twins in the car after a uni joint let go wasn't a great experience.

I'll post pictures as soon as I finish working on the driveline and get the car off the jack stands. As far as a 2JZ in a Charger, go for it! I've had all types of modified V8's and hi-po Hemi 6's and they used too much juice (I had a stroker chev in a Brougham once that'd go no more than 200k's on a tank) and they need to be pulled out and rebuilt if you want significantly more horsepower (just a couple of issue's that I went through). If you push a 2JZ too hard, which isn't easy, or do the wrong thing and kill a bottom end, a whole low k engine costs around half of what I spent on rebuilding the last 265 I had.

If you are still worried about the purists, put a bunch of Mopar stickers in the glove box and just throw them on the ground when they are approaching. You can then make a get away while they are fighting over them like sea gulls fight over a chip!

Cheers

ha fair enough, i'm thinking the same thing. as long as looks like a valiant on the outside i'll be happy.
good luck with your VF.

[jjw001]

ha fair enough, i'm thinking the same thing. as long as looks like a valiant on the outside i'll be happy.
good luck with your VF.

Found some photo's but I'm having trouble getting them loaded. I'll try again tomorrow.

[jjw001]

or maybe it worked.................paint was damaged on the way back from the painters so it's partially rubbed back in the pics (I've been saving for other bits and pieces so it still looks about the same as in the photo's). Should look pretty good once it's done though.

[stradlater]

Didnt' read through the entirety of this, but I might be able to help if you still have problems.

I have a 1uz, running Haltech Sprint 500, LS1 coils in waste spark. They work fine. Was the easiest part of the build actually!

Oh, and I've had a shit load of experience with the triggers on Toyota motors and Haltechs, if you need help on that too.. Haltech (the company) seem to routinely not understand that part when it comes to over the phone assistance. Other things they are really good!

Still need assistance?

[CELICASUPRA7M]

Looks awesome, what are the door handles from? Falcon?
And what sump did you use to fit the motor?

[jjw001]

Didnt' read through the entirety of this, but I might be able to help if you still have problems.

I have a 1uz, running Haltech Sprint 500, LS1 coils in waste spark. They work fine. Was the easiest part of the build actually!

Oh, and I've had a shit load of experience with the triggers on Toyota motors and Haltechs, if you need help on that too.. Haltech (the company) seem to routinely not understand that part when it comes to over the phone assistance. Other things they are really good!

Still need assistance?

Yeah, I'm still battling with the lack of inj pulse and no spark. Any advice would be appreciated!

[jjw001]

Looks awesome, what are the door handles from? Falcon?
And what sump did you use to fit the motor?

The door handles are EL Falcon rear door handles and the sump is from an 89 Supra (I think). It was bit of a tight fit with the rack and pinion steering I've installed though!