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Thread: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

  1. #1
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    Default AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    Upgraded the brakes on my AE92 a while ago with AE111 BZ-R Calipers & ADM AE101 rear brakes.

    The car definitely stops better but has nothing like the feel of my AE111 (i.e. pedal feels wooden / dead etc). . quite like a standard AE92 funnily enough

    I'm putting S/T Quads on the Car and running 1 Vac. line direct from a union behind TB#1 on the T3 Adaptor to the Booster, but am also thinking of tapping another hole behind TB#4 in case I change the Booster to the dual Vac. feed AE111 type.

    Has anyone managed to fit an AE111 Booster to go with the AE111 Calipers on an AE92 and has this improved the pedal feel?

    GS

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    Did you swap over the proportioning valve too?
    Also, the master cylinder is probably different, so swapping that (and the booster if the later model master cyl wont fit on the original booster) will help.

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    No I didn't; mucking around with those things can be a bit dicey unless you know what your doing. In any case I've increased both Caliper & Rotor size on the front; and Rotor size at the back (not sure what if any difference there is between AE92 / 101 rear Calipers) so hopefully F v R proportional braking force has remained relatively similar if not the same.

    Assuming that both the piston & rotor area has gone up, employing the larger AE111 Booster and, as you quite rightly mentioned, Master Cylinder would seem to make sense. . .

    GS

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    Swapping the proportioning valve is no harder than swapping a caliper.

    The valve for the drums will apply less pressure to the rear brakes than the one for the discs, as drum brakes are more efficient at clamping (but can't shed the heat).

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    I understand that physically changing the Valve isn't difficult; but its a bit of a lottery just plucking another valve from the Toyota parts bin and hoping the front / rear bias Toyota intended for that particular vehicle under different road & dynamic situations will be maintained. Manufacturers outlay quite a bit of R&D expenditure in order to arrive at a particular valve design.

    In any case the issue of brake "feel" is quite separate to load proportioning but I agree it is possible that the factors affecting feel might be influencing others.

    While the car is quite stable in slow / medium / hard stops in-a-straight-line it does have a worrying tendency to yaw / pitch over-steer on sweepers, an aspect of its behaviour that's worsened if you apply the brakes (even gently) in mid bend. While this may just be a suspension tuning issue it's quite possible that brake set-up is also a factor.

    Interestingly, this is more a problem on the street. I've thrown it around Wakefield and it's quite easy to do controlled slides around bends, but I went down to Bateman's Bay on a (wet) weekend recently and it was quite a worry on certain sweepers. It felt like the rear would let go and overtake the front given 1/2 a chance.

    I think it would be something better played with the next time I do a track day. I'd like to adjust the rear anti-roll bar first and see how I go. If its still twitchy on mid bend cornering then maybe it might be worth doing an R/R with another* Valve (I take it these aren't adjustable?)

    * You suggested trying a valve from a F.Disk / R.Drum car; what model are you suggesting, and do you know whether it will fit an AE92?

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    If the back end feels like it's going to overtake the front, you need more rear bias. Ie. a proportioning valve to suit the disc brake rear end. The AE series chassis is close enough that you can pull one from an AE92/101/111 and stick it in, assuming that the lines match up without too much bending.

    Your comment regarding R&D is a moot point when you are already mixing and matching brake components from different models. You've already undone all that work you are worried about upsetting by swapping the proportioning valve.


    I've done a number of rear disc brake swaps on both Corollas and Seras (Using Corolla/Levin and Starlet parts respectively) and in my experience, swapping the whole lot is the best way to do it.

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    OK; I better clear something up. The car is an early (1988) JDM AE92 FXGT; it came out with 4W disks standard so putting in, say a later ADM AE92 SX unit probably wouldn't make any difference. Re. R&D comment: Yeah; I thought you'd come back at me with that one

    I agree; it may well need more rear bias, but unless you know the specifications of the AE101 / 111 Valves Vs OEM (and even if you do) you're just throwing darts. . . because its a hybrid AE92/101/111 system with all the unknowns that go with that; so these issues are no surprise really.

    In retrospect; yes, I should have put in the whole AE111 Levin system to eliminate the variables; F/R brakes, Booster, Master Cylinder & Regulator. . . Oh well, when time / $$$ allow I will try & chase up an AE111 Booster / M.Cyl / Reg. and see how it goes with those.

    Thanks for the feedback. . .
    Last edited by GeeEss; 08-09-2011 at 09:36 PM.

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    All you can do is try. If it doesn't make it better, swap it back.

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    Just a question guys, my car runs disc on the front and drums on the back.

    Is there a straight forward way to swap the rear drums for discs?
    4AFE/gearbox issues, 4AGT/ZE replacement changes to fully blown 7AGTE project...
    https://www.facebook.com/gerard.mang...1485304&type=3
    The Corolla 4WD fan club: https://www.facebook.com/Corolla.Ae95.4wd?ref=hl

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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    Yep, find a disc brake corolla (AE102 or AE112 is a good donor), pull everything from the hubs to the disc rotors (and all in between inc. the flexible brake lines) off on both sides, take the hand brake cables and the brake proportioning valve, and stick it in your car. It's a day job at max.

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    Learner / modder / Backyard Mechanic PrettyCoolWagon's Avatar
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    Default Re: AE92 > AE111 / AE101 brake upgrade: Will AE111 Booster give better feel?

    Thanks T.O., you always come through, tried to give pos' rep but toymods says I have to spread the love.
    Not having a full understanding of every nut n bolt when it comes to brakes, I'm guessing it might be best to swap the entire braking system front and back... ? The front rotors on these later model cars might be better than my 20 yr old AE95's

    There's a couple of AE102's & AE111's at the local pick a part.

    Challenges would be, it's my first time effort.. and would have to take all the trolley jacks and stands down there to do the job safely..
    Might start by stripping down the brake system of the wagon I have in the shed so I'm a lot more familiar with that kind of work when I hit the pick a part yard.
    Last edited by PrettyCoolWagon; 30-09-2011 at 10:52 PM. Reason: ask for a bit more info
    4AFE/gearbox issues, 4AGT/ZE replacement changes to fully blown 7AGTE project...
    https://www.facebook.com/gerard.mang...1485304&type=3
    The Corolla 4WD fan club: https://www.facebook.com/Corolla.Ae95.4wd?ref=hl

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