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Thread: 4AGZE Pistons?

  1. #61
    Toymods Events Secretary Too Much Toyota trdee's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldeskewltoy View Post
    Loynings pointed it out to me, I had never heard of it before - but they are removed in all the Atlantic engines, I was told it was balance. ASSUMPTION - if the squirters don't apply even pressure to the underside... might the squirters cause the pistons to "cock" slightly in the bores... causing excess drag???
    That's an awesome assumption, on an 11,000rpm formula atlantic engine..... Maybe I should run a dry sump on my motor cos lyonings say it's important on a formula atlantic engine too?

    Relevance is lacking in your argument, unless you're building your engine to FA specs?
    1988 AW11 9A-GTE - Turbo Missile | 2004 Elise K20A - N/A Screamer | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - 80s cruiser
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    .....and the within first laps everything that made the AW11 great hit Rex as if the 'Gods of driving fun' had all Jizzed on his face.....
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  2. #62
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    geez, settle down kids...

    i should go finish proving the GZE slugs ae NOT forged and NOT ceramic coated


    ps, aren't oil squirters there to assist cooling of the rings?
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  3. #63
    Toymods Events Secretary Too Much Toyota trdee's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    I thought you were the one who proved the gze slugs are forged and coated??

    http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.p...t=0#msg_184686

    http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.p...t=0#msg_198924

    1988 AW11 9A-GTE - Turbo Missile | 2004 Elise K20A - N/A Screamer | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - 80s cruiser
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Kelway View Post
    .....and the within first laps everything that made the AW11 great hit Rex as if the 'Gods of driving fun' had all Jizzed on his face.....
    Quote Originally Posted by JustenGT8 View Post
    Mono blocs mate....as close to yours as a Ferrari is to a Fiesta

  4. #64
    Backyard Fabricator Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    2c's worth, the series II AE92 GTZ's (05/1989-05/1991) have 8.9:1 compression pistons, it's in the tech specs document for the AE92 Levin's and Trueno's also.

    On the subject of oil squirters, a 2jzgte block has them, a 2jzge of the same year does not. Many people block them off when going to a proper forged piston as the aftermarket forged pistons dont need the oil squirters.
    Last edited by JP; 16-04-2011 at 04:43 PM.

  5. #65
    Olde mechanic Carport Converter oldeskewltoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    oh well... I tried to take the high road...

    Anyway...... while doing research on this, I found that the crankshaft ASSUMED to have changed in 1987(from 40mm rod journals to 42mm rod journals), actually appears to have been available as early as 8/86, for when you look up the 1st 4AGZE piston (16060), and then look up the appropriate crank, the "newer" crank(16020) is listed. Also the 19095 MASSIVE rod is listed too
    Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

  6. #66
    A warning to all others! Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    I'd definitely like to see a proper thread on the use/elimination of oil squirts: when they're useful, when they're not, what applications use them, what are the real differences between the apps that do or don't use them.

    Considering how much effort a number of companies got to, in regards to eliminating a lot of oil from gathering either directly on the pistons, or the related rotating assembly, there is certainly reason to assume that there are times that squirters may not be the best thing. After all crank scrappers, and oil dispersant films are widely accepted as means to reduce the amount of oil that reaches or remains on the pistons.

    Might not be a bad idea to have a separate thread on the issue, as it is definitely worthwhile info. A lot of people who think squirters are automatically a good idea, might have second thoughts when the pros and cons are all laid out.
    So long and thanks for all the fish!

  7. #67
    Toymods Events Secretary Too Much Toyota trdee's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldeskewltoy View Post
    oh well... I tried to take the high road...

    Anyway...... while doing research on this, I found that the crankshaft ASSUMED to have changed in 1987(from 40mm rod journals to 42mm rod journals), actually appears to have been available as early as 8/86, for when you look up the 1st 4AGZE piston (16060), and then look up the appropriate crank, the "newer" crank(16020) is listed. Also the 19095 MASSIVE rod is listed too
    This is already common knowledge. The AW11 was facelifted in mid 1986, and with that facelift came the 7 rib bigport with the beefier bottom end, and the first 4A-GZE This version didnt have oil squirters and had an 8:1 compression ratio.
    1988 AW11 9A-GTE - Turbo Missile | 2004 Elise K20A - N/A Screamer | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - 80s cruiser
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Kelway View Post
    .....and the within first laps everything that made the AW11 great hit Rex as if the 'Gods of driving fun' had all Jizzed on his face.....
    Quote Originally Posted by JustenGT8 View Post
    Mono blocs mate....as close to yours as a Ferrari is to a Fiesta

  8. #68
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic dangdang's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    Just to throw my 2c in and go a little of topic I still maintain the squirter's have as much to do with keeping oil up around the wrist pin and bore as they do cooling.

    People say it is for cooling nothing else, FI engines create a lot more blowby making it harder for the hole/slot in the rod alone to splash lubricate that area and the Toyota engineers understood this.

  9. #69
    Olde mechanic Carport Converter oldeskewltoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    Quote Originally Posted by dangdang View Post
    Just to throw my 2c in and go a little of topic I still maintain the squirter's have as much to do with keeping oil up around the wrist pin and bore as they do cooling.

    People say it is for cooling nothing else, FI engines create a lot more blowby making it harder for the hole/slot in the rod alone to splash lubricate that area and the Toyota engineers understood this.
    The hole in the rod sprays the thrust side of the cylinder. The oil control rings wipe the excess oil, it flows into the pistons, thereby oiling the wrist pin. Check an Atlantic... the rods have no provisions for oiling the cylinder wall. Loynings told me on numerous occasions, that it isn't needed because the amount of splashing is adequate to lubricate the reciprocating assembly
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  10. #70
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic dangdang's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    As I said FI that is Forced Induction engines (not NA Formula Atlantic engines), create more positive crankcase pressure and blowby past the pistons and down the cylinder walls.

    Oil squirters would have to greatly help keep oil up in the wrist pin and cylinder wall area where the splash and a/or hole/slot in the rod alone would have to work against the increased blowby of a forced induction engine.

    I would happily run an NA sans squirters, FI no way, and not as I have said just for the cooling.

  11. #71
    Olde mechanic Carport Converter oldeskewltoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    my point about the Atlanic wasn't the type of engine... it was the rod associated with Atlantics (Carrillo, or TRD, or similar) NEITHER uses a squirter drilled in the rod - rods used in Atlantics depend on splashing to lubricate the cylinder walls(no rod squirter, or piston squirter)... my point had nothing to do with boosted, or n/a apps...

    photo of 2 AE101 pistons, right 20V silvertop(n/a), left 4AGZE (forced induction)



    the hole in the side of the GZE slug directly corresponds to a 2nd hole drilled in the piston connecting the two and oiling the wrist pin. No such hole in the 20V slug
    Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

  12. #72
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic dangdang's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    My point was all about FI v NA and what the squirter is about.

    Thanks for pointing out the detail that you have oldskewltoy, it does strengthen my argument on the squirters, and make me consider other details also!

    The top echelon of this engine did not run any device to force oil into the bore area, agreed?

    The manufactured version of this engine, once forced induction was introduced added a device to force oil into the centre of the bore.

    Simplicity there after meant that all GE and above blocks received this treatment, sure oil pulls heat away but forced induction also will force liquid away.

    My argument is that every one says, "the oil squirters pull heat away from the underside of the piston, that is all, nothing else"

    Sure, but my point is that unless positively forcing the oil up into the bore as all the smallport/gze blocks do there is no way once forced induction is added that the oil could get there anyway, to either draw heat away or lubricate efficiently! This is why these engines last like they do.

    So therefore the basic function of the squirters is lubrication under high positive crankcase pressure, and the cooling is naturally the by product of the oil leaving that area anyway.

    I gotz pizza to eat now, night.

  13. #73
    Junior Member 1st year Apprentice kickn5k's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcorollas View Post

    i should go finish proving the GZE slugs ae NOT forged and NOT ceramic coated
    I agree on them not being forged. They appear to be a 4000 series piston(well that's how they machine) not a 2618 grade forging alloy piston. So IF it is found that a 4000 series high silicone material is used, then they are more a squeeze cast piston and not forged.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: 4AGZE Pistons?

    forging is the process, not the material used a 4032 piston is normally forged, not as strong (but still very strong compared to cast pistons), higher silicone than a 2618, but doesn't expand as much and requires less clearance, depends on the use and application, for a street car with mild boost i'd choose a 4032 over a 2618 every day of the week

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