4AGZE Pistons?

[mr2gze]

My info isn't hearsay, its very common to find ae101 slugs in early model gze's as the wrist pin is the same size and the 8:1 pistons are discontinued since 91.

I don't think it is wise to use ToyoDIY as your source of information, part numbers match as some parts are discontinued since formation of that specific website.


as per your last pic, all listings are for ae101 released gze's as the previous versions were all bigports.

Ignorance is bliss... All im hearing is hearsay... Nothing you have said backs up your argument.

Seriously did you even bother to read my post, or pay any attention whatsoever to the pictures?

No? So ill spoon feed it to you.

A: and B: After 8905 there is no afm in the intake track of the ae92 4AGZE... because it uses a MAP sensor.
C: All ae92 4AGZE's use DLI
D: and E: No, all listings are for a ae101 because I had selected the AE101 LEVIN GTZ. But you have missed the biggest point of all... my choice to include the AE101 and AE92 screenshot was to confirm the intake manifold on a late 8905-9105 AE92 4AGZE and all AE101 4AGZE's 9106+ share the same part# 17101-16230. Look at the part numbers highlighted in yellow, ie. a smallport intake manifold.

I can go on, but your clutching at straws...

[oldeskewltoy]

4AGZE piston history
13101-16060 8/86 - 7/87 (Japan MR2) -CR unknown/unconfirmed, but likely 8.0 to 1
13101-16100 7/87 - 5/89 (MR2 and early AE92) CR known/confirmed - 8.0 to 1
13101-16130 5/89 - 3/91 (AE92) CR unknown/unconfirmed 8.0 to 1, OR 8.9 to 1???
13101-16131 6/91 - 5/95 (AE101) CR known 8.9 to 1


From over 20 years of experience behind the parts counter, I've seen a fair amount of mis-information. One thing I have seen is that a change can be small, and a small change FREQUENTLy will carry a much more similar part number....

For example.... take AE101 rods. There are 2 numbers listed 13201-19125, and 13201-19126. Yet everyone "knows" there is only one silvertop rod.... When you look up the rods, you will note the 19125 lists for $145, while the 19126 lists for $96. As I see this, Toyota found a lower cost supplier for the rods, and as such since the only difference is price, the part number changed, but only by a single digit.

Ok, now back to the 4AGZE pistons.... the late AE92 slugs carry a part number only one different from the AE101 slugs, the price is the same, so the change could be just a change in suppliers.

Now, the only facts here are the listings, so I promise I wont get my feeling hurt by someone else... BUT - unless, untill someone purchase's both... OR if Toyota shows a substitution of the 16131 for the 16130. There will be little to prove anyones opinions

[trdee]

agreed. need moar proof.

[mr2gze]

4AGZE piston history
13101-16060 8/86 - 7/87 (Japan MR2) -CR unknown/unconfirmed, but likely 8.0 to 1
13101-16100 7/87 - 5/89 (MR2 and early AE92) CR known/confirmed - 8.0 to 1
13101-16130 5/89 - 3/91 (AE92) CR unknown/unconfirmed 8.0 to 1, OR 8.9 to 1???
13101-16131 6/91 - 5/95 (AE101) CR known 8.9 to 1


From over 20 years of experience behind the parts counter, I've seen a fair amount of mis-information. One thing I have seen is that a change can be small, and a small change FREQUENTLy will carry a much more similar part number....

For example.... take AE101 rods. There are 2 numbers listed 13201-19125, and 13201-19126. Yet everyone "knows" there is only one silvertop rod.... When you look up the rods, you will note the 19125 lists for $145, while the 19126 lists for $96. As I see this, Toyota found a lower cost supplier for the rods, and as such since the only difference is price, the part number changed, but only by a single digit.

Ok, now back to the 4AGZE pistons.... the late AE92 slugs carry a part number only one different from the AE101 slugs, the price is the same, so the change could be just a change in suppliers.

Now, the only facts here are the listings, so I promise I wont get my feeling hurt by someone else... BUT - unless, untill someone purchase's both... OR if Toyota shows a substitution of the 16131 for the 16130. There will be little to prove anyones opinions

Well said, you are exactly right! Toyota does just as you say! See screenshot A below, from the Toyota EPC I have. The 8905-9101 AE92 4AGZE piston part# 13101-16130 is substituted for 13101-16131! Indicated by the PNC#(SUBS) column in the screenshot. 13101-16131 being the AE101 4AGZE piston part number, confirmed by screenshot B. Infact 13101-16131 is listed as the actual piston number the 9104-9106 AE92 4AGZE was delivered with! i.e. not a substitute.

A: 8905-9104 AE92 4AGZE


B: AE101 4AGZE


As the inlet manifold part number comparison I made in my above post was not sufficient to confirm the smallport head. (a smallport inlet manifold will never work on a bigport head) See screenshot C below. Which confirms the entire head assembly for the 8905 + AE92 4AGZE and AE101 4AGZE is the SAME.

C: 8905-9106 AE92 4AGZE


D: AE101 4AGZE


This and my previous post above proves beyond any reasonable doubt the 8905+ 4AGZE had a smallport head, was map sensor-ed, had 8.9:1 pistons, and was DLI.

trdee and Casey-G, sorry to be a cnut, but please stop the propagation of hearsay/opinion as fact on these forums. You are clearly incorrect, I don't care if you fitted a afm ae92 4agze to your mates car. How you can jump from this thought to believing no other engine combination existed is beyond me.

Finally to add my own hearsay, I have owned both a AE101 4AGZE halfcut
and a late AE92 4AGZE map, dli smallport half cut (and seen countless more with my own eyes at importers here and Japan). They exist!

[trdee]

Alls I said is I wanted more proof as ive never seen one myself. Seeing is believing. And thank you for sharing your info

[RT40Corona4AGTE]

Umm my halfcut from a few years ago was a late AE92 4AGZE MAP, DLI smallport too? if that helps anyone? I havent read the full thread, but thats what I got anywho.

[Casey-G]

Alls I said is I wanted more proof as ive never seen one myself. Seeing is believing. And thank you for sharing your info

agreed with this

but anyways no need for shit fights.

[oldeskewltoy]

no need for shit fights.

apologies... BUT you guys were giving me tons of shit about the squirters(also with no proof on your side), and then...

the thread was to enlighten you as to the two different types of 4AGZE pistons.

Also, I must agree with everyone else here in terms of the oil squirters.

Again, I apologize for my contribution... but I felt, and STILL feel all of you who think you know what is, or isn't right - were, and are wrong.

[trdee]

how did any of this piston discussion have any impact on your oil squirter debate? nothing has changed in terms of those facts, all that has changed is we now know for certain that there was an AE92 smallport 4AGZE.

so how about you get off your high horse just cos some people choose to disagree with your assumptions of what toyota may or may not have been trying to do by adding oil squirters?

[oldeskewltoy]

This post has been edited, I had written an argumentitive response.... I feel that I responded to the previous post in a knee jerk re-action.

[TERRA Operative]

What's the go with the 3S/5S crowd installing oil squirters into their 5S block (or using the 3S block as it has them already installed) when doing the '5SG(T)E' conversions?

In a properly maintained engine, I see the pros of oil squirters outweighing the cons. Keeping piston temps down in a boosted application would be a rather high priority I would think, along with the increased lubrication to the small end and cylinder bores. Even in a high revving application (silvertop/blacktop) , I'm sure (assume...) Toyota would have done the calculations.


Out of interest, have you calculated the mass increase on the piston and imbalance of the forces involved when using oil squirters? It would be interesting to see just how pronounced the effect is.
I would say that with the 4 squirters, the net effect would cancel out to 0 across the crank, however the actual force per piston (and the subsequent extra loading on each bearing) compared to the film strength of the oil used would be interesting to see.

[jonathan yee]

terra, i'll have a decent right up about installing 3s squirters into 5s blocks soon. it's not a straight forward exercise.

reason i went it i'm hoping to push the rpm and do some track days where it'll see high rpm for extended periods of time.

knowing what i know now with regards to fitting them i do't think i or anyone will bother fitting them again really.

[oldeskewltoy]

Out of interest, have you calculated the mass increase on the piston and imbalance of the forces involved when using oil squirters? It would be interesting to see just how pronounced the effect is.
I would say that with the 4 squirters, the net effect would cancel out to 0 across the crank, however the actual force per piston (and the subsequent extra loading on each bearing) compared to the film strength of the oil used would be interesting to see.

Loynings pointed it out to me, I had never heard of it before - but they are removed in all the Atlantic engines, I was told it was balance. ASSUMPTION - if the squirters don't apply even pressure to the underside... might the squirters cause the pistons to "cock" slightly in the bores... causing excess drag???

[jonathan yee]

interesting, tho the stock 3s gudgeon pins aren't central in the piston so wouldn't they "cock" slightly anyway?

dunno if the 4a pistons are the same?

[TERRA Operative]

4A pistons are central.

The oil film and length of the piston should keep it square, if it were to 'cock' sideways in the bore any further than the oil film thickness, then you have more problems than an oil squirter....


When I was planning mu 5SGZE build (sticking with 4A now) I was looking to install squirters into the 5S block. I was informed by Terry at Road and Track that it can be done, and has been done before, but is a stuff around to do. I was planning on doing it anyway as being supercharged, it would have been seeing higher combustion temps but only 8000RPM redline.