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Thread: Crank angle sensor position

  1. #1
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Crank angle sensor position

    Does the position of the crank angle sensor matter with the stock ecu?

    I have a gen 4 3sgte that has the COP so it uses a crank angle sensor like the beams motor. I am having trouble with the height of the motor with the stock 2 piece sump so I want to change to a 2s sump and modify it with wings etc. Now the oil pump will have to be changed to one that does not rely on the aluminium sump piece being there and I can use a late model 5sfe one which will do the trick nicely however the position of the crank angle sensor is a bit different as you can see below.

    Will this change in position matter to the stock ecu or is this a recipe for disaster? I'm not too familiar with the workings but I have a suspicion that it wont be as easy as swapping the covers over. Would I also need to use the 5SFE trigger wheel provided that the teeth count and diameter are the same?

    3sgte / Beams crank angle sensor position


    5SFE oil pump cover with crank angle sensor position rotated to the right 45 degrees

  2. #2
    Junior Member Carport Converter RA35GT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crank angle sensor position

    If you move the trigger wheel itself the same amount around it should be fine. (The the sensor reads the same tooth as it normally would).

    If you mean move the sensor but leave the trigger in the same place then that wont work because the sensor needs to be indexed to the trigger wheel (which is indexed to the crank).
    1977 RA35 Celica GT - I4 | 2007 GSV40R Aurion - V6
    Don't live life being scared of death, live in the fear of not truly living. RP 2012

  3. #3
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crank angle sensor position

    The trigger wheel is part of the crank pulley which you can't move due to the crank keyway. Looks like the crank pulley would have to be swapped to the 5SFE one to accommodate for the different positioning of the sensor.

    Here is the beams one but the 3sgte shares the same part number


  4. #4
    Junior Member Carport Converter RA35GT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crank angle sensor position

    If the teeth on the 5sfe crank trigger are exaclty the same (in terms of number of teeth) but comes with the teeth rotated around to suit the sensor then that should work.
    1977 RA35 Celica GT - I4 | 2007 GSV40R Aurion - V6
    Don't live life being scared of death, live in the fear of not truly living. RP 2012

  5. #5
    Junior Member Grease Monkey TRD-12A's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crank angle sensor position

    Yeah for sure the teeth would have to be rotated to the same position otherwise it'll think number one cylinder (which is the big square part) is in the wrong place therfore it actually probably would'nt even start being that far out

    Obviously the 5sfe pulley would have to be right for that sensor however if the part number is the same then you will find that the keyway on the crank on the 5sfe would be in a different place to the 3sgte

  6. #6
    Is a Chief Engine Builder wilbo666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crank angle sensor position

    Quote Originally Posted by stidnam View Post
    The trigger wheel is part of the crank pulley which you can't move due to the crank keyway.
    The trigger wheel is kinda 'stamped' onto position on the rear of the pulley I believe.

    I can't see why can't you remove it, rotate it and weld it to the correct position?

    Got a pic of the back of the pulley?



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    Wilbo
    Last edited by wilbo666; 27-03-2010 at 05:02 PM.
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  7. #7
    2sc Breaker!!!! Backyard Mechanic bmxer54's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crank angle sensor position

    Stidnam How did you go with this? I'm building a cop gen2 on a 2s block and will be running a 5s oil pump with a gen 5 beams crank pulley, and an ems stinger ecu. Did you manage to get it all to work on your setup?
    My Rides:
    1x Brown St141 corona csx. powered by a gen 2 3sge, 1x RT142 turbo 1UZ, cd009 and G series, 1x Gj Sigma Scorpion injected and turbo'd, 1x KE30 2TG, w58 and F truetrac, 1x RT104 18RG, w58 and F truetrac

  8. #8
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia stidnam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crank angle sensor position

    I got side tracked with a 2T/3TG turbo build and the 3SGTE is still on my engine stand in the garage without a home. As you are running an aftermarket ecu you should be right.

    Try this
    http://www.mr2oc.com/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=118

    The trigger wheel is part of the pulley so you cant remove and spot weld in a new spot.

    One thing to note is the 5sfe oil pump pulley is different size or number of teeth to the 3S stuff so check that and maybe swap the pulleys over if you need.

    Oil pump pulley
    5s - 25 teeth,
    rev3 - 25 teeth,
    rev1/2 - 27 teeth,
    Caldina - 27 teeth.
    Last edited by stidnam; 09-07-2015 at 08:27 AM.

  9. #9
    2sc Breaker!!!! Backyard Mechanic bmxer54's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crank angle sensor position

    I have just found out after a few years of bulding other cars and slowly playing with this one when I get a chance that the ems stinger v4 is unable to read the extra tooth design of the beams trigger wheel, I have a few options now, I could just use the 24t trigger wheel in the 3sgte dissy, or I can change ecus to something that will work with the beams trigger wheel, or I pull the front off my motor and machine the trigger wheel to have a missing tooth design in a mill using a rotary table, obviously my first option is the easiest, the second would be costly but simple enough, and the 3rd fairly straight forward however rather time consuming.
    just when I though I was nearing the end.
    My Rides:
    1x Brown St141 corona csx. powered by a gen 2 3sge, 1x RT142 turbo 1UZ, cd009 and G series, 1x Gj Sigma Scorpion injected and turbo'd, 1x KE30 2TG, w58 and F truetrac, 1x RT104 18RG, w58 and F truetrac

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