Open-ended budget 4AGE build - with some restrictions

[the_random_hero]

Say you have a basically open-ended (within reason, ie. not $50k) budget to build a supercharged 4AGE for a track engine. There are a few restrictions:

*must be a 4AGE bottom end (ie. no 7A cranks)
*must be a bigport head
*must be supercharged
*must be built for a 4000-7000rpm powerband
*must be tuned conservatively for reliability, but at least 200rwkw
*must last at least 50k kms before needing any sort of rebuild
*must run on E85
*will be mounted EW.

How would you go about it? I have some idea's as to how I would like to do it, but more interested in what other people would do. Yes I am well aware I could just get a GZE and throw a turbo on it, but have zero interest in that whatsoever.

[destroyer]

if you have a (reasonably) open ended budget, why not do something crazy?

[the_random_hero]

if you have a (reasonably) open ended budget, why not do something crazy?

Like what? I have to stick sort of within those recommendations for my class. Yes I could do a 3SGTE/1UZFE/2GRFE conversion for roughly the same price but not interested.

[trdee]

those restrictions really undermine the open-endedness of your engine build lol. for one thing you wont be making 200KW at the wheels on an sc12 with a "conservative, reliable tune" thats for sure!!!

[the_random_hero]

those restrictions really undermine the open-endedness of your engine build lol. for one thing you wont be making 200KW at the wheels on an sc12 with a "conservative, reliable tune" thats for sure!!!

How? Did I ever say it had to be a SC12? 200rwkw is only 20 something psi of boost for a stock GZE, stupidly easy for any non-Roots blower.

[oldcorollas]

not that easy, 20psi+ is still challenging for screw blowers, in terms of leakage, power consumption and heat generated...
twin charge?

does the class have an intake restrictor?

[the_random_hero]

not that easy, 20psi+ is still challenging for screw blowers, in terms of leakage, power consumption and heat generated...
twin charge?

does the class have an intake restrictor?

I fail to see how 20psi is difficult, if I'm not mistaken the Mazda twinscrew blower is good for 21psi on a 2.3L (I think) engine. Considering my engine is considerably smaller, with a ~1.4L blower it should be easily doable. Not interested in twin-charging, have looked at it and lots of fucking around for not much gain (it's not really that efficient, especially looking at some of the newer twinscrew blowers).

No intake restrictor, was thinking for shits and giggles I'd run a custom plenum and quad throttlebodies (possibly from a GTIR or similar).

For those interested in my sort of budget, I can source basically any car part you could possibly imagine at trade price or lower, plus I have people who will do all the engine work for basically a couple of cartons (all machining, balancing, head work, putting engine together, ceramic coating, etc). I have at least one proper sponsor who has already given me the definite nod for when the car is more complete, plus another one who is still deciding to what extent they want to sponsor the car.

[trdee]

must it be supercharged? i cant see why you wouldnt just go turdbro unless its a class restriction of some sort.... if you really can get all the engine parts/work done cheap then i would be looking at running a lot more boost and making a lot more power than that. take a look at what bazda has going in his car over in NZ for a serious business yet reliable track setup.

also, 50,000kms sounds like a lot for a track engine which will basically never see anything less than 4000rpm whenever its running. then again im not all that wised up on these things but yeah... doesnt sound right to me.

[knightrous]

If I was going to do this kind of thing, this is roughly what I would hash out.

4AGE 20V Blacktop - Rebuild the bottom end to have forged rods and pistons. Possibly stick with the 10.5:1 compression depending on how well E85 can keep it from knocking with 20psi. Stick with the ITB's and add a BOV.
Lysholm 1600 A-AX Twinscrew - Good for well over your power needs, relatively cheap too as shown in Gun's SC12 thread.
Water2Air Intercooler - Big assed unit to keep intake temps down and allowing a high flow, shortest path possible intake.

Probably some other things I'd look at, but I'm just spitballin

[oldeskewltoy]

superchargers = Rotrex(small, compact, works VERY well)

You said no 7A cranks.... what about using a 7A block with a custom fully counterweighted 85mm stroke crank??? The added 200 cc of stroke will go a looong way


Assuming you can't do that.... for reliability I'd go with a mix and match. Find a smallport block (squirters) a 42mm rod journal crank Also last gen TVIS rods. Finally AE101 4AGZE slugs. Oversize valves and a complete porting job (not quite to F/A sizes... but close)

Cams... maybe custom - 256(definately no more than 264) with as much lift as the cam maker can provide

Management - something good

[trdee]

last generation tvis crank strongest????? dude the cranks are identical across all 4A generations (bar the 3-rib block)

[X kyle X]

^ this.

Now there is gonna be more jargon across the Internet about 4a engines

[oldeskewltoy]

last generation tvis crank strongest????? dude the cranks are identical across all 4A generations (bar the 3-rib block)

apologies... you are in deed correct.... too much coffee this am

[Cuzzo]

I feel the OP question is a bit difficult to answer.

You want 200kws but no turbo and no twinscrew charges?

Does it have to be a 4age or a 1.6L?

Also reving the motor at 4000 - 7000rpm for 50,000kms could be a problem for the motor.

[mattysshop]

i don't think it would be a problem.. definitly nothing toyota issue in the bottom end aside from the crank, oil pump..

everything else i would go aftermarket, the stock stuff MIGHT get away with it.. as it is only 7k.. but i wouldn't risk it..

again stock over bucket shims may well and truly last.. but i wouldn't risk it.. i would use underbucket shims..

if you want a bit of a run down, from a guy who has built almost everything from hi powered daily SR/CA/3S/4E, to 800hp RB's... and many many many NA SBC, clevo etc etc making over 700hp on pump fuel in streeters..

Kohen - KJ Motor Machining (same unit as Extreme Custom Engineering)

0403 748 607
Unit 2 - 142 Beatty Rd Archerfeild..

he will be able to give you a quote and some idea's for the engine itself, and porting/head work/cams etc etc...

if you go and see him in person you can talk to Craig about doing the pipework/cooler, custom tuned length extractors, cage, ally radiator etc etc etc all of which you might be interested in for this project of yours...