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Thread: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

  1. #1
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Hi guys,

    I just recently purcahsed a 4AGTE powered AE93 Corolla. It has a AE101 MAP sensored motor running standard ECU and injectors with a RB25 turbo on 9psi

    Im not looking at putting any form of ECU in it for awhile but i would like to run some more boost in the near future. Im going to get some 7M injectors and a new fuel pump for peice of mind. Now for the questions.

    1 Will the standard ECU be able run the bigger 7m injectors without drama?
    2.What internal fuel pump do people suggest (will a VL turbo pump suffice)
    3 Do i need to change any fuel lines or fittings with the above mods due to increse in fuel flow?
    4 Do the standard GZE plugs need to be re gapped to suit the turbo application?

    Any help you guys can offer would be awesome

    Thanks in advance
    Dave
    Last edited by MrRolla; 14-01-2009 at 01:17 PM. Reason: typo
    91 4AGZE SX Hatch.
    98.8kw@ wheels (Standard Boost)
    15.01@89MPH (Standard Boost )

  2. #2
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    i have a friend who own a KE70 with 4AGZE bottom, small port and running a "4EFTE Map sensor + 4AGZE injectors" trick on small port ECU. it works so well at 14psi without any glitch.

  3. #3
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Can anybody offer any help.
    91 4AGZE SX Hatch.
    98.8kw@ wheels (Standard Boost)
    15.01@89MPH (Standard Boost )

  4. #4
    Daydream believer 1st year Apprentice CrAiGzEE's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    1. will run but not ideal
    2. just get a walbro one off ebay
    3. will be fine
    4. are you havin a problem? if not run with it for now , if the ignition is breaking down try a smaller gap
    5. put it on a dyno that will give ya piece of mind

  5. #5
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota YLD-16L's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrRolla
    Hi guys,

    I just recently purcahsed a 4AGTE powered AE93 Corolla. It has a AE101 MAP sensored motor running standard ECU and injectors with a RB25 turbo on 9psi

    Im not looking at putting any form of ECU in it for awhile but i would like to run some more boost in the near future. Im going to get some 7M injectors and a new fuel pump for peice of mind. Now for the questions.

    1 Will the standard ECU be able run the bigger 7m injectors without drama?
    2.What internal fuel pump do people suggest (will a VL turbo pump suffice)
    3 Do i need to change any fuel lines or fittings with the above mods due to increse in fuel flow?
    4 Do the standard GZE plugs need to be re gapped to suit the turbo application?

    Any help you guys can offer would be awesome

    Thanks in advance
    Dave
    1. No, I know this because I tried it out of interest. It'll run like a POS, as you'd expect.
    2. The "VL" pump is an external pump, clarify what you plan to do.
    3. What size are the current fuel lines? As, said though they will be fine.
    4. As also said, unless you're blowing out the spark they won't be. I run BCPR7ES plugs gapped to 0.8mm and the spark has been fine up to 21psi.

    Lack of response from anyone is because all this has been covered many times before.
    My KE25 thread
    WSID - 12.8@108mph || Wakefield Park - 1:11.4 || SDMA Hillclimb - 49.1

  6. #6
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by YLD-16L
    1. No, I know this because I tried it out of interest. It'll run like a POS, as you'd expect.
    2. The "VL" pump is an external pump, clarify what you plan to do.
    3. What size are the current fuel lines? As, said though they will be fine.
    4. As also said, unless you're blowing out the spark they won't be. I run BCPR7ES plugs gapped to 0.8mm and the spark has been fine up to 21psi.

    Lack of response from anyone is because all this has been covered many times before.
    Thanks for you help.

    So basically no point in upgrading the injectors unless some form of ECU upgrade is also done aswell? So looks like ill just run what ever boost i can (fuel permitting) with the ZE injectors.

    As for the pump I thouught i seen one advertised as an internal pump, If its external than scratch that idea.
    91 4AGZE SX Hatch.
    98.8kw@ wheels (Standard Boost)
    15.01@89MPH (Standard Boost )

  7. #7
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota YLD-16L's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrRolla
    Thanks for you help.

    So basically no point in upgrading the injectors unless some form of ECU upgrade is also done aswell? So looks like ill just run what ever boost i can (fuel permitting) with the ZE injectors.

    As for the pump I thouught i seen one advertised as an internal pump, If its external than scratch that idea.

    Exactly right, standard ECU with standard injectors is the only combination, any other injectors will give poor driveability. Even if you dodge up some bandaid solution to correct mixture at a particular load it'll be shit house somehwere else or dimish some factor of driveability that a standard ECU provides.

    The ZE ECU and stock injectors were fine up to 15psi on my car, that was the older AFM version.

    I have a Bosch "VL" pump and they are an external pump.
    My KE25 thread
    WSID - 12.8@108mph || Wakefield Park - 1:11.4 || SDMA Hillclimb - 49.1

  8. #8
    Don Mega Chief Engine Builder X kyle X's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    I would think 12 - 13psi could be had on GZE injectors and not be over the top as YLD said he ran 15 ona afm version!

    That should yield decent power
    The GOD HAND AW11 - sold

    http://www.toymods.net/forums/showth...ight=kyle+AW11

    AIDS infestation - HCR32 Skyline - the jesus foot?

  9. #9
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota YLD-16L's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by X kyle X
    I would think 12 - 13psi could be had on GZE injectors and not be over the top as YLD said he ran 15 ona afm version!

    That should yield decent power
    Provided everything else is in good order 15psi on a stock ECU will net you over 145kw more likely around 155kw at the wheels.
    My KE25 thread
    WSID - 12.8@108mph || Wakefield Park - 1:11.4 || SDMA Hillclimb - 49.1

  10. #10
    Don Mega Chief Engine Builder X kyle X's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    There you go!! 140rwkw in a light ke70 will get you moving rapid!

    I think yld deserves rep!
    The GOD HAND AW11 - sold

    http://www.toymods.net/forums/showth...ight=kyle+AW11

    AIDS infestation - HCR32 Skyline - the jesus foot?

  11. #11
    broken down ex guru Chief Engine Builder feral4mr2's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    i ran 18psi on stock gze injectors for quite a while. dont own a wideband 02 sensor so i dont know how un-engine friendly it was, it didnt blow up anyways! haha
    plus never had any drama's useing 7mgte injectors on the stock afm ecu, dont know how much that would differ with a map gze ecu though sorry. (though yld say's it didnt work for him).

  12. #12
    working hard Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    yld-16l i am running 10psi on my 4agte with a t28bb and my a/f ratios start to lean into 13:1 in 4th gear at 7000rpm.. I managed to pull 130kw@10psi but tuner told me thats the limit of my AFM not the injectors. Did your car still run the AFM box and standard 4agze ecu ? mine was setup like this. Also did you ever get yours dynoed to see a/f or just ran 15psi with blind fold lol.. Either way i am interested in ya old/new setup

  13. #13
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota YLD-16L's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by feral4mr2
    plus never had any drama's useing 7mgte injectors on the stock afm ecu, dont know how much that would differ with a map gze ecu though sorry. (though yld say's it didnt work for him).
    It worked in that you could drive it (did about 100km on the 4AGZE ECU/AFM/7MGTE injector combo). but the issues were:

    It ran ridiculously rich.
    Would have fouled the plugs pretty quick after a few starts.
    But worst of all due to how rich it ran it completely changed the boost response characteristic of the turbo (you were SC I'm guessing feral??), it went from a nice smooth and rapid spool when you went WOT to bogging down as it overfueled, lag lag lag then smash! It was on full boost. Very shit to drive, not to mention how bad the black smoke out the exhaust looked at the first change to WOT.

    By all means satisfy your own curiosity and throw the injectors on, it's only a quick and easy job. See how it goes in your case with a MAP sensed ecu.


    Quote Originally Posted by reece12
    yld-16l i am running 10psi on my 4agte with a t28bb and my a/f ratios start to lean into 13:1 in 4th gear at 7000rpm.. I managed to pull 130kw@10psi but tuner told me thats the limit of my AFM not the injectors. Did your car still run the AFM box and standard 4agze ecu ? mine was setup like this. Also did you ever get yours dynoed to see a/f or just ran 15psi with blind fold lol.. Either way i am interested in ya old/new setup
    Strange it's leaning off that much as mine ran into the low 11's across the rpm band i.e. very rich. That was using some shit box Malpassi fuel reg instead of the stock reg though (only difference I can think of). It drove really well with that setup but going after market ECU and being able to ditch the AFM was a huge improvement, especially in the mid range.

    Here is the dyno plot from the 4AGZE ECU/AFM/stock injectors (pic from article in Zoom mag):



    As you can see whilst it was rich the actual fuel control from the stock ECU was superb, a nice flat line.

    I'd never make any changes without checking on a dyno/wideband. I have my own wide band meter though so it makes life easy if I need to make any changes.

    I have a heap more dyno charts here with the Microtech and old T28 turbo fitted:

    http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23329

    I'll add a new chart after this weekend to show the new tune and plot with the recently fitted turbo.

    Do a search on here for airflow meter swaps, a few people have used the larger meter off the 3S and claim to have good results, it's not a straight plug-in and go job though and no one who has done it has posted dyno or wideband plots to show how well it actually works, only anecdotal evidence.
    My KE25 thread
    WSID - 12.8@108mph || Wakefield Park - 1:11.4 || SDMA Hillclimb - 49.1

  14. #14
    broken down ex guru Chief Engine Builder feral4mr2's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by YLD-16L
    It worked in that you could drive it (did about 100km on the 4AGZE ECU/AFM/7MGTE injector combo). but the issues were:

    It ran ridiculously rich.
    Would have fouled the plugs pretty quick after a few starts.
    But worst of all due to how rich it ran it completely changed the boost response characteristic of the turbo (you were SC I'm guessing feral??), it went from a nice smooth and rapid spool when you went WOT to bogging down as it overfueled, lag lag lag then smash! It was on full boost. Very shit to drive, not to mention how bad the black smoke out the exhaust looked at the first change to WOT..
    i put the 7mgte injectors in whislt i was twincharged @ 18psi (lil feral). kept them in after i pulled off the turbo and s/c only @ 17psi (max). the car seemed to idle like normal, run through the rev range like normal, and i didnt see any black smoke out the exhaust (though i did expect too). have recently been chasing a running/bogging problem with the car, and changing back to 365cc gze injectors didnt solve it, seemed to be a timing issue.

    i never got around to trying the 7mgte injectors on the feral's 4agte.

    would love to own a wideband air/fuel meter.

  15. #15
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota YLD-16L's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGTE upgrades, need some help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by feral4mr2
    i put the 7mgte injectors in whislt i was twincharged @ 18psi (lil feral). kept them in after i pulled off the turbo and s/c only @ 17psi (max). the car seemed to idle like normal, run through the rev range like normal, and i didnt see any black smoke out the exhaust (though i did expect too). have recently been chasing a running/bogging problem with the car, and changing back to 365cc gze injectors didnt solve it, seemed to be a timing issue.

    i never got around to trying the 7mgte injectors on the feral's 4agte.

    would love to own a wideband air/fuel meter.
    Good stuff feral, it's very interesting to hear the different results people get from essentially the same engine management. Definitely means anything is worth a try once even if only for interest sake.

    Wide band meter was one of the best purchases I have made, used it on plenty of cars now and it's been very handy indeed.
    My KE25 thread
    WSID - 12.8@108mph || Wakefield Park - 1:11.4 || SDMA Hillclimb - 49.1

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