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Thread: Turbo selection 4agte

  1. #1
    Toymods Club Member Too Much Toyota TooF's Avatar
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    Default Turbo selection 4agte

    now i know this topic has been done to death on in terms of "i put turbo X on and it did this" but i want more of a "turbo X will be job Y because here are the flow calculations not a loose guess"






    here are the maps for the GT2560R-707160-9 and the GT2650R-466541-1 respectivly. both with what im working on as the flow lines for a 4ag.

    Am i interpreting this right as the 2560r-9 (left) will be capable of producing just under half a bar of boost at around 2500rpm whilst the 2560r-1 will make again just around one quarter bar but at around 2000rpm. so coming on earlier and a shade more progressivly where the -9 will hit a little later but harder.

    looking at the useful top end punch im seeing that both will produce adequate flow at say 1bar between 4000-8000rpm seeing around 70-max-70% efficent on the smaller 2560-1 where the slightly larger 2560-9 will see at the same revs and pressure 72-max-76% efficeny so both are well within their comfortable operating range at around 1bar on that enign.

    now i read these numbers as suggesting the 2560-9 is larger (and more efficent) however comes with a smaller wheel, trim and ar (59.4, 56, 0.42) -v- (60,60,0.60) am i missing something... oh and ill admit turbo sizing and specifications are something im not 100% with, hence asking.

    can someone shed some light please?

  2. #2
    Forum Sponsor Conversion King
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    your not looking at them in the right perspective and those lines youve drawn dont really mean squat.

    best advice would be read the garrett turbo tech sections to give you a better understanding.

    the turbine side is what affects the way it responds but at the same time you need to match the front to suit your needs and make the comp side sit in its highest efficiency island the longest and also where you want it.

    what do you require out of the turbo (and please be realistic) when would you like to see full boost, how much boost, what flywheel hp and most importantly what are your engine specs?

    cheers
    linden
    Quote Originally Posted by WHITCHY
    Prefer someone around the Sydney area but will travel a few hours for a good box!

  3. #3
    Toymods Club Member Too Much Toyota TooF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    super chargers i know.. turbos i dont happy to admit, happy to learn.

    the lines ive drawn on there were based off the flow rate in lb/min calculated from the convesion rate 0.07lbf^-3 this was based at a PR of 1 ie nil positive pressure. then again at PR 3 and ive then interpolated between these points at each rev point.

    the engine in question is a 1600cc 4agze which im plannig on pulling the SC off and replacing with said turbo. ive got the SC fairly seriosuly overdriven currently and ive been havng non-stop problems with tensioners and belts hence jumping ship from the SC setup.

    The engine is runnig a static compression of 8.0 and has had a basic freshen up rebuild about 2 years ago (15,000km) and runs well. my plan is pretty much to rip the SC off and run the turbo on the existing engine without opening it up. I intend on using a 4age inlet manifold coupled up with a st165 a/w intercooler.

    The engine is in generally good health and runs 140psi compression +/- ~5psi across all cylinders.


    realistic expectations from it.. the engine was running around 1bar from the severly over driven SC and i was generall happy with the performance. if i can get it to produce loosly similar power i would be quite happy. so lets call it ~200hp at the fly is my immediate target, i dont think this is an unrealistic or unacheivable target.

    i love the way the SC drives with the instant throttle response and dont want to sacrifice throttle response for huge power.

    I know it'll never have that instant boost of the SC but i dont want to goto something with too much lag making it more unwieldly.

    having driven some of the modern euro turbo passenger cars (vw/audi) you can almost drive them without having to worry about lag as the power comes on smoothly and polietly. unlike alot of big power turbos ive driven which come on like a ton of bricks. I want to avoid this all or nothing style power and really want good response from it.

    let me do some more reading and ill try and interpret what i need to calculate the graphs properly.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer BigWorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    I've been looking at exactly the same thing for the last couple of days, and I've got pages of notes & calculations sitting here with a list of turbo candidates that includes both of those turbos & also compares them to the HKS GT2510 I used to have.
    I pretty much decided on the 2560R -9 today, based on that compressor map, but wondered the same thing as you. Another thing I've noticed is the GT2860R (707160-5) has the exact same comp spec as the GT2860RS (739548-1) and almost exactly the same spec compressor as the HKS GT2510, but the 2 Garrett turbos have very different comp maps, as below, so I've started to wonder about the accuracy of the maps.

    GT2860R
    http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...R_707160_5.htm

    GT2860RS
    http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...S_739548_1.htm


    Now compare the 2560R 707160-9 map to the GT2860R 707160-7 compressor map; 60mm compressor exd. compared to 59.4mm and wildly differing maps.

    GT2560R 707160-9
    http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...R_707160_9.htm

    GT2860R 707160-7
    http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...R_707160_7.htm

    The only difference between both pairs is GTR vs. SR20 housings, with exactly the same or very close to measurements.

  5. #5
    Forum Sponsor Conversion King
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    if you only want 200-250 hp get a turbo rated to 250-280hp and enjoy instant response but if you intend on going for more power then spec it larger.

    in all honesty get the turbo that will only just do the job and it will give you the most responsive setup (thats the way euro stuff is)


    cheers
    linden
    Quote Originally Posted by WHITCHY
    Prefer someone around the Sydney area but will travel a few hours for a good box!

  6. #6
    Forum Sponsor Conversion King
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    ill have a look on garrets site when i get time and give you some part no to look at.

    cheers
    linden
    Quote Originally Posted by WHITCHY
    Prefer someone around the Sydney area but will travel a few hours for a good box!

  7. #7
    Toymods Club Member Too Much Toyota TooF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    well at this point my debate is between

    GT2554R - 471171-3
    GT2560R - 466541-1
    GT2560R - 466541-4
    GT2854R - 471171-9


    i need to do more reading before im happy to commit in which direction, but the realistic truth is im not chasing massive power but im sure it'll degreade into that at some point lol but certainly for the time being i want to get something that maximises driveability.

    if i find some more time this weekend ill sit down and do some more reading and nut out a better way to ask the same question

  8. #8
    Building Corollas Chief Engine Builder Cuzzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    for sale: http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/bo...howtopic=20214

    disco potato "new" $1100.

    note: not me and not mine.
    KE30 4agte - Bullet - Rick Rolled
    UZX83 1UZ W58- Cruiser - Tow Car - Fun Car
    Quote Originally Posted by -GT- View Post
    You had an oil and plastics engine bay fire, with flames that reached at least to the roof - of course shit got hot, it wasn't burning jiffy firelighters back there.

  9. #9
    Forum Sponsor Conversion King
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    ifyou want instant response and something with a shiteload of low-mid i would swing with the 2554r, for a bit more topend with minimal sacrifice to lowend id swing for the 2560r (both the turbos -1 and -4 are the same its just one of them has a gtr style rearhousing)

    and the 2560 will give you the option to push it further later on.

    cheers
    linden
    Quote Originally Posted by WHITCHY
    Prefer someone around the Sydney area but will travel a few hours for a good box!

  10. #10
    Junior Member Grease Monkey KOV51's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turbo selection 4agte

    I too have been considering this issue with my 4AGTE setup and I have decided to go with a low cost KKR330 turbo rrp $719. I have a friend who installed one on his corolla and is seeing 179kw @ the wheels on 17psi. Boost is being produced around the 2500rpm amount with full boost arriving just on 4000rpm so with a 8000rpm ceiling it was still pulling right up to the limiter for the money I cant justify paying twice the money for a garrett when it uses a T25 flange aswell. Just a thought when considering the options I am anyways

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