Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Brake lining seperating from backing?

  1. #1
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer RobertoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    511

    Default Brake lining seperating from backing?

    The other night I was on a bit of a spirited drive when I had this horrible metallic scraping noise from the rear brakes. It happened everytime that I applied the brakes but I didn't seem to have lost any braking power (not that I really tried them out that much anyway!).

    When I pulled the drum off it was pretty evident to what had happened, one of the linings on the shoes had completely seperated from the metal part of the shoe. There was a fair bit of brake fluid on the inside of the drum (as the piston had over extended slightly letting some out) and the drum had been scored to all fuck...

    The shoes were a couple of weeks old and when installed they had been bed in properly.

    Anyway my question is, what would cause this to happen?
    The obvious one is dodgy manufacture.

    Can exessive heat cause the lining to seperate? (I would hope that the adhesive would be rated to something above the heat normally seen by the brakes). Since I was on the brakes a fair bit they were getting hot, nothing more than normal though.
    I know having the internal tensioner extended too far can cause the pads to rub too much hence causing too much heat however I checked the manual when I installed the shoes and it said to extend it so that there is slight contact and little rolling resistance (which is what I did).

    My first thought on pulling them out was that the brake fluid leak had happened before they failed and caused it to break lose (somehow the fluid getting into the lining????) however the cylinders were new, had never leaked before and since I have put in new pads and drums they haven't leaked.

    I'm going to take the shoes back to get some replacements/ refund, so does anyone have any thoughts on why they might have failed?
    I can put up some pics tomorrow.

    Cheers
    Rob

  2. #2
    iconoclast Backyard Mechanic Youngy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Hi,

    I have had problems with leaking brake fluid in a drum brake and disc brake situation (not at the same time....phew) and I don't believe the fluid could affect the pads adhesion to the backing.

    I did have to rough up the pads once I got them clean of brake fluid however as brake pads covered in brake fluid are not that effective.

    I believe your first thoughts of dodgy manufacture is probably the most likely explanation in this case.

  3. #3
    Gary Motorsport Inc. Too Much Toyota takai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    5,543

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Normally the brake pads are attached to the backer with rivets. I havnt seen any glued on ones in ages.
    -Chris | Garage takai - Breaking cars since 1998
    Sparky - AE86 IPRA Racer | RZN149 Hilux - Parts and Car Hauler
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  4. #4
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer RobertoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    511

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    That's what I thought, but it looks like the original ones that I had in there didn't have rivets and the new ones certainly didn't.

  5. #5
    Toymods V8 Member Too Much Toyota CrUZida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    8,214

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Are we talking SHOES or PADS?
    Peewee
    1985 MZ12 Soarer - 1UZ Powered
    2013 86 GTS

  6. #6
    Junior Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    The only time i have seen linings rivited to the shoe is when i was a Diesel mechanic working on large trucks. Normally they are bonded onto the shoe for cars and the likes.

    The only problem with taking the brake shoes back is that they might say that you have void the warrenty because you didnt get the drums skimmed, i guess you could always neglect that part of the story

    Cheers
    Jason

  7. #7
    Yep they look great Carport Converter gianttomato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    1,811

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Shoes - the drums were scored.

    This happened to me a few years back but the shoes were 30+ years old (new old stock). I suppose the bonding just failed. I have never seen any car drum shoes that had the friction compound riveted to the shoe.

    Given that they were only a few weeks old, I figure you just take them back and see what happens.

  8. #8
    Domestic Godess, NOT Domestic Engineer clubagreenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    698

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Smallest vehicle I've seen with riveted shoes was a Land Rover, everything else has been glued and never one come apart.

    Take back, replace, take another set of drums as well and have them at least machine them for you if not also pay for them.
    Friends

    ed_jza80 has not made any friends yet

  9. #9
    Carless Grease Monkey
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    VIc
    Posts
    180

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Yup replace every thing is way to go. But a bad fitment of the shoe might have caused the problem. Were they fitted properly ( spring might have got old and snapped !!) , should be the first question because bad fitment can even snap a metal.
    And if it is showing signs of brake fluid than it is a serious warning to get everything on the brake system checked as brake is the most important part of car. Once braking at 100Km/h my pads/shoes gripped the tyres and than let them go . I was all f**ked by the brake failure and tried to avoid the object ahead of me. Wasn't a fun experience believe me.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer RobertoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    511

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    The rear brakes have had an overhaul very recently, I put in new pads and new cylinders and now have new drums.

    The brake fluid was from the cylinder overextending due to the shoes being much thinner! After 5 days of use there is no fluid coming out of them at all.

    All the springs were fine when I pulled it apart.

    Brakes not working are farking scary! When this happened I was going into a corner at a fair speed and the pedal sunk to the floor! I had to pump the brakes to regain pressure ( as the cylinder needed to extend a bit more to make up for the lost material some more fluid was needed in the system)

    But anyway thanks for the input guys, I'll return the shoes and get them to machine the drums.
    Last edited by RobertoX; 26-01-2006 at 10:09 AM.

  11. #11
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer RobertoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    511

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Just an update on what happened with this.

    I took the shoes in to the place that I bought them and they replaced all the shoes and machined my drums. They were very good about it with no questions asked and they were quite appologetic.

    It was nice to see this sort of service when so many places try to dodge responsibility for faulty work or bad goods. So a plug goes to ABS (Adelaide Brake Service) on Currie st.

    Cheers
    Rob

  12. #12
    Gary Motorsport Inc. Too Much Toyota takai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    5,543

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Cool, ABS on Currie St is quite good with stuff, they have ordered in a lot of gear for me from time to time and even ran an account for me for a week while they were waiting for the entire purchase to come through.

    So quite reccomended from me.
    -Chris | Garage takai - Breaking cars since 1998
    Sparky - AE86 IPRA Racer | RZN149 Hilux - Parts and Car Hauler
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  13. #13
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL USofA
    Posts
    1,115

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Were the shoes arced?
    the radius size of the drum is used to cut the new (and usually oversize) shoe material to match the drums size, for full contact.
    if the shoes were Very undersize, they would have to bend quite a
    bit trying to conform to the drum, and that might cause the seperation
    with a POORLY BONDED shoe that might have worked OK otherwise.

  14. #14
    Junior Member Domestic Engineer RobertoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    511

    Default Re: Brake lining seperating from backing?

    Interesting,

    Inside radius of the shoe did appear to be slightly less than that of the metal backing of the shoe. When you fit them together as they should go there is about a 1mm gap between the centre of the shoe and the backing plate.

Similar Threads

  1. AE82, AE92 and AE101 Brake Upgrade Guide
    By The Witzl in forum FAQ
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-05-2020, 07:08 PM
  2. xA6x, xZ1x, xX7x + others FRONT AND REAR Brake Upgrade
    By CrUZida in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 180
    Last Post: 24-07-2018, 11:43 PM
  3. 20V Brake Booster Vacuum Problems
    By ShiRi in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 15-12-2005, 07:06 PM
  4. Rear Disc Conversion for FWD Cars
    By wagonist in forum FAQ
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-09-2005, 12:27 PM
  5. Brake upgrades for FWD/AWD 5x100
    By wagonist in forum FAQ
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-09-2005, 11:38 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •