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Thread: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

  1. #16
    Normally Aspirated Domestic Engineer RT104GT's Avatar
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    Default W50 bits

    I have just acquired a dead W50 from the wreckers for $20 out of a hilux.
    I am going to post some photos to show the internal differences between the two boxes.
    Dramatic to say the least as was the failure of the countershaft in a Hilux 5sp conversion.
    1 inch diameter forged steel snapped in half.
    Thats like trying to twist a crow bar in half Mind boggles as to the forces. And there was thread somewhere about using a second hand box in a Hilux, take 200 hp or something like that power. Yep might indeed but not for that long in my opinion.

    Wait until I post these catastrophic failure photos.

    W50 photos








    OOPS





    BANG
    Last edited by RT104GT; 18-11-2006 at 04:31 PM. Reason: shift stuff
    1968 RT40S Corona 1600S series II (restore in progress)
    1973 RT104-MQFG 012604 Corona GT JDM (Owned since 1976 242000 km)
    1989 ST185-BLMVZ-0007199 Celica GT4 JDM (unmolested classic 95000 km)
    2012 ZN-6 86GT (shed find 5000 km in 6 years)

  2. #17
    Normally Aspirated Domestic Engineer RT104GT's Avatar
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    Default Comparison of W50 and P51: main shafts:

    1st difference is (As River says..If you see Brass you have a W50).

    W50 case has part number 33111-20091
    P51 33111-20090.


    There is a clear distinction between the W50 and P51.
    To my untrained eye the P51 is a slightly stronger gearbox with similar bearing design.
    The main shaft gears have a tad more thickness on the P51 than the W50 and might be stronger.
    (Which makes sense seeing the 18RG of that era had 145 ps not 85 and twice the torque).
    The main bearing goes in through the front in the P51 where it would be possibly to replace the centre main bearing by removing the rear housing in a W50.
    The syncro methods and the anti-chatter scissor-gear are really the only differences.
    The gearing on the P51 clearly shows a larger diameter in the intermediate gears reflecting the closer ratios.
    The gearboxes start to make noises by 140-150.000 km but it is mainly the input bearings.
    I think if we changed our oil more often one of these boxes would last 300,000 km or so easily.





    Top W50 Lower P51 main shafts
    (disassembled and W50 busted countershaft).



    Viewed through the inlet hole you should see the brass rings and the different 1st selector on the W50
    Whereas the P51 has a lighter fork and alloy brake bands.

    Also looking back to the main plate if you see bolt heads (12mm) that's a P51.
    There is also a 10mm gap between 1st gear and the main centre bearing plate in a P51
    A W50 hass the gear flush agaainst the centre main plate and has no oiling nozzle.
    the W50 main bearing is mounted from the rear.

    So if you can't see thru the oil hole, drop the extension housing off
    If you can see a main bearing plate with four Philips head screws
    you have a W50.

    There is nothing externally to tell the difference.



    Second difference is the counter shaft input gear
    which in the P51 has an anti-chatter scissor plate
    and nothing on the W50 countershaft.

    P51 countershaft u/s with Scissor Plate and how it works.






    W50 countershaft (damaged)

    Last edited by RT104GT; 19-11-2006 at 07:32 AM. Reason: Shifted thread here
    1968 RT40S Corona 1600S series II (restore in progress)
    1973 RT104-MQFG 012604 Corona GT JDM (Owned since 1976 242000 km)
    1989 ST185-BLMVZ-0007199 Celica GT4 JDM (unmolested classic 95000 km)
    2012 ZN-6 86GT (shed find 5000 km in 6 years)

  3. #18
    Normally Aspirated Domestic Engineer RT104GT's Avatar
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    Default Re: P51 re-assembling

    Sorry About Pics But Changed Isp
    Last edited by RT104GT; 06-06-2008 at 08:40 AM. Reason: PIX
    1968 RT40S Corona 1600S series II (restore in progress)
    1973 RT104-MQFG 012604 Corona GT JDM (Owned since 1976 242000 km)
    1989 ST185-BLMVZ-0007199 Celica GT4 JDM (unmolested classic 95000 km)
    2012 ZN-6 86GT (shed find 5000 km in 6 years)

  4. #19
    Junior Member Grease Monkey MnToyGuy's Avatar
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    Hey guys, we just had a question on tis on www.1stgencelica.com. I do have the pictures for the above saved to my computer. I can e-mail or upload to my host (which will NEVER go away) and send links, if the author or one of the mods cares to restore the pics. This is too valuable info to lose.

  5. #20
    Toymods Net Nazi Too Much Toyota river's Avatar
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    Hi,

    Sure, go for it.

    You can PM me the links etc and I'll put them in.

    I have the factory manual repair info for the P51 box. I think I put it on this site somewhere.

    seeyuzz
    river
    The thinking man's clown and the drinking woman's sex symbol
    RA25GT - There is no substitute | 18R-G - Toyota's Dependable Masterpiece
    Toymods Car Club Treasurer, assistant Historic Plate Registrar & Forums Admin

  6. #21
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    What has happened to the picures above?

    I am about to restore a P51 and need help...

    Anyone got some tips or links to how to overhaul a P51 and where I can buy new sync-rings??
    - 1978 Celica GT RA40, 18RGU, P51, F-axle
    - 1982 Cressida DX RX60, 21R, W55, E-axle
    - 1982 Carina DX TA60, 2T, T50, T-axle

  7. #22
    Toymods Net Nazi Too Much Toyota river's Avatar
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    Hi,

    I think I put up the P51 rebuild info and pics on this site a while ago. I'll have a check and see if they're stilla round.

    New sync rings? Good luck mate.... I've tried and they are not in existance anymore. You can try putting the ring in backwards. I haven't done this myself and I was only told about it as an option that may get you a little more time out of the worn rings - so I cannot verify if this is a viable option or anything like that. Personally, it sounds rather suspicious to me.

    The P51 gearbox is a ZF-patent box, same as used in the early-mid 70s Porsche, so you may be able to get something by trying Porsches or ZF (if ZF still exists or who ever made ZF gearboxes). I tried contacting the local Porsche Club in Australia and they could not help me, though they did try.

    In Europe, where there are more Porsches, I'd try a few local Porsche clubs as they would have members who have older Porsches that use the old sync-ring style gearbox, and they may know some gearbox rebuilders who can fabricate the sync rings.

    You can whack in a W50 box as they bolt up identically as the P51, and the ratios are very similar. It will at least keep you going while you get the P51 overhauled.

    In the meantime I'll have a search for my old P51 info and see if it is still here and give you a link to it.

    seeyuzz
    river

    PS: I found the P51 gearbox repair manual link. http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13857

    PPS: Here is the thread I put up a while ago showing the insides of these and other old gearboxes..... http://www.toymods.net/forums/showth...&highlight=w50

    Can anyone see the pics? I can't and I think it is because where I work they are blocked.
    Last edited by river; 09-05-2008 at 07:33 AM.
    The thinking man's clown and the drinking woman's sex symbol
    RA25GT - There is no substitute | 18R-G - Toyota's Dependable Masterpiece
    Toymods Car Club Treasurer, assistant Historic Plate Registrar & Forums Admin

  8. #23
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    Thanks a lot, river!
    That was some nice pages with description.

    My P51 is very rare here in Norway and I want to rebuild it cause it's a bit of struggle to get it in to 3rd and 4th gear, maybe because it has done 334000km (208000miles) ....
    I've got a nice W55 sitting in another car, do you think I maybe should bother to fix this up instead?
    Last edited by Roye; 07-06-2008 at 09:26 AM.
    - 1978 Celica GT RA40, 18RGU, P51, F-axle
    - 1982 Cressida DX RX60, 21R, W55, E-axle
    - 1982 Carina DX TA60, 2T, T50, T-axle

  9. #24
    Domestic Godess, NOT Domestic Engineer clubagreenie's Avatar
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    ZF Definately still exist. Mainly doing auto's (1st of the genuine range rover autos were ZF HP's) and truck type stuff that I know of. They are in Seven Hills, just off Abbot Rd (turn at the hungry jacks near the M2 end, same street as motorsport connections), down the end on the right.

    You might find some crusty figure there who knows
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  10. #25
    Normally Aspirated Domestic Engineer RT104GT's Avatar
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roye
    What has happened to the picures above?

    I am about to restore a P51 and need help...

    Anyone got some tips or links to how to overhaul a P51 and where I can buy new sync-rings??

    I have a complete centre shaft cluster with good rings if you wanna buy it
    1968 RT40S Corona 1600S series II (restore in progress)
    1973 RT104-MQFG 012604 Corona GT JDM (Owned since 1976 242000 km)
    1989 ST185-BLMVZ-0007199 Celica GT4 JDM (unmolested classic 95000 km)
    2012 ZN-6 86GT (shed find 5000 km in 6 years)

  11. #26
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    What would U take for it???
    - 1978 Celica GT RA40, 18RGU, P51, F-axle
    - 1982 Cressida DX RX60, 21R, W55, E-axle
    - 1982 Carina DX TA60, 2T, T50, T-axle

  12. #27
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    I'm a new member here so greetings to all. I apologies for resurrecting this thread but I don’t seem to be able to start a new topic in the for sale thread.

    In my net searches I found forum members here to be the most interested in this unique gearbox so I figured some here would be interested in a heads up.

    I have a P51 that has been in a time warp (unused) for 27 years and is in exceptional condition. It was a difficult thing to find when I purchased it 29 years ago so I'm sure it's like rocking horse sh!t these days and no doubt very useful to a select few.

    Anyway, I have it up on Fleabay if anyone is interested, search for “Toyota P51”.
    It would be nice to see it go to an enthusiast so if anyone is interested you can contact me here, via PM, or via Fleabay, whatever suits.

    If this is considered spam just have the mods delete it and I wont bother anyone here again.

    Thanks

  13. #28
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    I'm a new member here so greetings to all. I apologies for resurrecting this thread but I don’t seem to be able to start a new topic in the for sale thread.

    In my net searches I found forum members here to be the most interested in this unique gearbox so I figured some here would be interested in a heads up.

    I have a P51 that has been in a time warp (unused) for 27 years and is in exceptional condition. It was a difficult thing to find when I purchased it 29 years ago so I'm sure it's like rocking horse sh!t these days and no doubt very useful to a select few.

    Anyway, I have it up on Fleabay if anyone is interested, search for “Toyota P51”.
    It would be nice to see it go to an enthusiast so if anyone is interested you can contact me here, via PM, or via Fleabay, whatever suits.

    If this is considered spam just have the mods delete it and I wont bother anyone here again.

    Thanks,

    Owen

  14. #29
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    Anyone have sync rings?

  15. #30
    Toymods Net Nazi Too Much Toyota river's Avatar
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    Default Re: P51 rebuild Step by Step.

    Nope. No NOS left for these rare gearboxes. I even tried Porsche and the Porsche Car Club, as the P51 is a Porsche patented gearbox. No joy from there either.
    The thinking man's clown and the drinking woman's sex symbol
    RA25GT - There is no substitute | 18R-G - Toyota's Dependable Masterpiece
    Toymods Car Club Treasurer, assistant Historic Plate Registrar & Forums Admin

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