Setting up 2NZFE coils on 20V with Razorback ECU?

[sillycar chick]

Guys, I need help! All the reading ive been doing is way over my head and im finding myself more and more confused!

I have a 20V silvertop with a Razorback (modified stock ECU with handcontroller) ECU. I want to run these coil on plugs:
(sorry Sam for stealing your pic!)

Problem is I dont know enough about it to work out how to set this up with the ECU. Obviously I need a reference, like CAS by modifying the dizzy or the like. But I cant figure out what sort of signal the ECU needs, so I dont know how to modify the dizzy

Here is the information I have from the razorback manual:

*******


Is anyone able to figure it out and dumb it down a bit so I can understand what I need to do to get it running?
Thanks!

[JP]

reading those instructions, you shouldn't have to butcher the teeth in the 20V distributor. You will need to run the coils in waste spark mode though, ie, fire coil 1&4 together and 2&3 together.

eg:

[sillycar chick]

Thats a good explanation of the 4 wires off the coils thats a big help!

So with my ecu below, does that mean that I hook up coils 1&4 to Spark Ignitor 1 (IGT), coils 2&3 to Spark Ignitor 2 (IGT2 Multicoil)?
And the tacho, on the ecu 37 is Tacho output (L2), is that tacho feed from coils, or sending the info to the tacho gauge?
And can I use the 12V switched ign from any of those connectors on the ecu? (20,21,42)

Oh and what happens with the dizzy then? Do i just disconnect the wires and blank it off?

[JP]

Yep, I'd connect 1&4 to IGT1 and 2&3 to IGT2, I'd wire ECU pin 37 to the tacho in the cluster. You can leave the IGf connections from the coilpacks disconnected (Tach wire in the Miata diagram)

You can wire the coils to the switched ignition relay output, I'm not sure if you'd need to add a supressor to the coilpack power feed though. Probably best to check with Sam about how well his ECU copes with electrical noise.

[skiddz]

beaten to it, wasted spark is the way to go

the tacho output is to the tacho guage its a low level output so you may need to make a tacho booster. alternatively you could rig it up so you could pull the signal straight from the coils, its not that hard i saw somthing in the megamanual about it has somthing like 3 diodes in various configurations, ill see if i can dig it up

with the dizzy, remove the cap and rotor button replace with a cover of some description LEAVE THE WIRES CONNECTED this tells your engine when to fire injectors, when to fire coil etc. so it is required

edit: you will need to remove some teeth on the wheel inside the dizzy, do it with a dremel or somesuch tool, make it look like the picture, when you power up the ecu change a few of the settings, you will have to connect IG2 (obviously) and change the coil settings from 1 toyota to 2 toyota, and with the 4 coils it should run wasted spark.

[sillycar chick]

I still dont get how I need to modify the dizzy yet.... im assuming it needs to be done so the ECU has a reference for when to fire the coils, so what, leaving two teeth indicates teh two times that the coils fire? which too teeth? mind you I havent seen inside the 20V dizzy yet...

[JP]

reading the pages you posted above, it looks like only the bigport distributor requires modification. The smallport distributor runs the same trigger setup as a 20V distributor, so shouldn't require any modification to the teeth.

[twentyEight]

Silly, can I ask where you got the plugs for the coils?

What did they set you back?

[JP]

You can order the plug connectors from toyota for about $7ea from memory, it's the pins that are the expensive bit as you can only get the pins with 20cm of wire crimped to them from toyota for a stupidly expensive price.

[sillycar chick]

Ok this is what the inside of my 20V distributor looks like...

[skiddz]

weird i see no missing teeth nor raised teeth

i guess just leave it, see if it works, and if it doesnt then try and understand it

[JP]

That's the 24 tooth wheel, you'll find the other wheel below it. As the instructions state, you dont need to modify a 20V distributor for it to work with the multicoil setup.

[sillycar chick]

Yeah i was having a look for interests sake so if i pull off the cover that says "do not remove" i'll see it there?
I've put the cover back on the dizzy and left it there anyway. I was going to fit up my coils today but realised that I have to modify them to fit them in the hole. Hopefully i dont have to take too much off them.

[JP]

yeah, you've only got to take off 0.5-1mm to get them to fit nicely. I turn them down in my lathe but I know of others who use a linisher or similar to reduce the diameter.

[sillycar chick]

Yep, I'd connect 1&4 to IGT1 and 2&3 to IGT2, I'd wire ECU pin 37 to the tacho in the cluster. You can leave the IGf connections from the coilpacks disconnected (Tach wire in the Miata diagram)

Just in regards to this, im assuming I dont need to connect the "Tach" wires on the coils as the dizzy sends the ECU the signal for the rpm, and I can then connect pin 37 to the gauge (with a booster thingy) and I'll get the tacho signal?

[sillycar chick]

Need help! I set my coils up as per this and im only getting coils 1 and 4 firing on my engine Ive set my ECU to run "2" coils instead of "1". Ive checked the coils and plugs im using on 2 and 3 and they work on 1 and 4 when swapped so its gotta be the signal. The connectors for 2 and 3 are also connected to the ecu pin stated, we checked for continuity.

Any ideas? I need to fix this today or I cant drive to Toyfest tomorrow

[sillycar chick]

Some info I found here (http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=55377) that may be of use to help me solve this:

20v Silvertop/Blacktop:
4 wires (colors listed not in order, green, white, red, black)
looking at the distributor connector left side first
1 = G- (ground)
2 = G1 (1 tooth home synchronization wheel)
3 = G2 (180 degree offset of, 1 tooth home synchronization wheel)
4 = Ne (24 tooth engine injection synchronization wheel)

When you reference that back to the razorback pinouts, you see that G2 isnt connected to my ECU anywhere, could this mean that 2 and 3 arent firing because the dizzy isnt telling the ECU when its 180 deg off 1 tooth home, and 1 and 4 ARE firing because it knows when 1 tooth home is?

[NME308]

Some info I found here (http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=55377) that may be of use to help me solve this:

20v Silvertop/Blacktop:
4 wires (colors listed not in order, green, white, red, black)
looking at the distributor connector left side first
1 = G- (ground)
2 = G1 (1 tooth home synchronization wheel)
3 = G2 (180 degree offset of, 1 tooth home synchronization wheel)
4 = Ne (24 tooth engine injection synchronization wheel)

When you reference that back to the razorback pinouts, you see that G2 isnt connected to my ECU anywhere, could this mean that 2 and 3 arent firing because the dizzy isnt telling the ECU when its 180 deg off 1 tooth home, and 1 and 4 ARE firing because it knows when 1 tooth home is?

This may be a stupid question... but do you have 2 ignitors which are separate from the ecu?
I imagine the stock setup used a single ignitor to fire a single coil? I.E. distributor sensor signals go back to stock ecu and ecu signals an ignitor to ground the coil and fire a spark... In your case I once again am imagining you will have the distributor sensor signals going to the razorback which will now fire coils 1 and 4 on IGT1 via the first ignitor which has coils 1 and 4 earth's connected to it. Coils 2 and 3 will fire on IGT2 via the 2nd ignitor which has coils 2 and 3 earth's connected to it.

It appears to me from the top diagram that the modified razorback ecu may not need the G2 signal you refer to. It possibly only requires the 1 tooth reference signal because once the distributor has turned once and the ecu has found the home signal it will fire one IGT output at the first trigger signal and the 2nd IGT on the 2nd trigger signal and then of course the reference tooth will be sited and the process starts again...

I've wired in a Motec M4 to the HQ 18 months ago and it seems ecu's have endless pitfalls for the uninitiated - even more when working tired!

Hope you have someone knowledgeable to look over your shoulder by now!

Cheers,
Jason

[sillycar chick]

Yeah I eventually got hold of the guy who made the ECU and G2 isnt required. He's going to come out some time over the weekend to figure out whats wrong as he said it should be working....
Pity I cant make Toyfest tho