Toluene

[JustenGT8]

Hmmm nasty but as i need a last petrol tune before i switch to E85 i want to try this stuff.

I'm thinking a 20-30% mix so 20 litres will do it.

Thoughts?

and anyone know where to get the stuff cheap? T2 thinners is the same stuff

[SillyCarS]

when i ran 13:1 in the ol RG we put about 4 L per ra23 tank i think it was

ofcourse less boost and all that jazz as well

[MR 1JZ]

be interested to see how you go justen...im thinking of throwing some of this or avgas in my tank...

apparently its well toxic tho aye

[trdee]

it's carcinogenic, but hey the 80's f1 cars ran on toluene mix at something like 7bar in qualifying, so it gets results

[SillyCarS]

yeah only the sikest ****s have it

its obvious here that these two bitches are NOT from SA

[Screamn_Sleeka]

It is not carcinogenic, it is teratogenic, and only class 2 at that. The only serious hazard associated with Toluene is its flammability.

Toluene is in average petrol, about 5-12%. The presence of it, and other compounds like it (such as Benzene, ethylbenzene [search keyword: BTEX]), in petrol (which is about 20-25%) raise the RON from around 85 to the premium 98.
Most of that 20-25% stuff is added by the producer, some of it persists from the crude.

Toluene is $60 for 20L, and is available from solvent suppliers. Where ever you buy your thinners (mitre 10, auto one etc...) can contact their supplier for Toluene, as well as other solvents like acetone, xylenes etc.

Toluene vapor is considered a serious green house gas because it absorbs UV, obviously it wont be as bad if you burn it cause CO2 doesnt absorb as much - but dont worry, every time someone sprays a car they release 20L of the stuff.

I dont know what you are trying to archive, but adding an extra 20% toluene isnt going to do much. The RON of pure Toluene is only 110. So if you have 100RON stock petrol, an extra 20% of Toluene with RON of 110, it will make a final blend of 102 RON!

E85 probably has a RON of 110, so there is not way you can match that by blending Toluene, only if you run pure Toluene.

[MR 1JZ]

yeah but E85 drinks like a fish and eats your entire fuel system

[Sciflyer]

I got a 20L drum of Toluene to try with a previous car whihc had fairly high compression
Cant remember where i got it from, just that it didnt last long and it makes your car an absolute **** to start in the mornings!

[river]

Hi,

Isn't toluene also used in dry cleaning?

seeyuzz
river

[strat]

Mmmmm be carefull with tolulene. I have used it years and years ago. It is ok to make shit fuel better, but you would not need it for that these days bacause pump fuel is so good.
Tolulene is more widely used as a bonding agent to mix fuels without it seperating as to is accetone.
Tolulene or acetone can be found in some race blends of E85 to stop the ethenol seperating from the petrol.
Another down side i found with Tolulene is that it will make your car run very hot as it burns much hotter than say ethenol or methanol.
E85 i have found is fine on your fuel lines if you have fuel in them but if you let it evaporate lines will go hard and crack
As for E85 drinking like a fish i have found mixed results... My race car (3SGTE) after switching to E85 uses fark all more fuel in a race than AV-GAS, but my team mates (mazda BP18) use alot more than me. dont know why must be the toyota O2 advantage
I gained 20kw and 40nm switching to E85 from AV-GAS.
If any one wants some race E85 i have like 200L left over from some massive dyno testing we did with different types of E85.

[JustenGT8]

Hey Strat, thanks the for real world experience. I hadn't heard about it making the car run hotter? This is critical for me as the car is borderline at the track as is. Getting the car running cooler is one of the reasons i want to go to E85.

I would love to take your spare E85 off your hands but don't think Oz Post will get it to me

[don_makaveli]

just soak some tshirts in it and send those haha

[strat]

I have also found that the E85 makes my car run about 10 to 15 degrees cooler.

[jeffro ra28]

Justen, as strat pointed out, toluene and acetone are mixing agents that keep the substance from separating. You CAN mix methanol (very cheap) at about 10% to give an octane increase on 98 of around 5 points = 103
Acetone at %10 mix will give about 3 octane points rather then 5. The major difference from methanol being that due to the higher calorific value of acetone, the consumption does not increase so much, but still provides higher octane. Its function being that it increase the volatility of the mixture without reducing the basic fuel properties too much.

If it were me i would be using 5% acetone with %10 methanol mix. Only purpose in the case for use of acetone is its mixing agent properties to stop the methanol separating from the fuel.

Sorry not much to do with toluene as such but.... my 2c

[JustenGT8]

Justen, as strat pointed out, toluene and acetone are mixing agents that keep the substance from separating. You CAN mix methanol (very cheap) at about 10% to give an octane increase on 98 of around 5 points = 103
Acetone at %10 mix will give about 3 octane points rather then 5. The major difference from methanol being that due to the higher calorific value of acetone, the consumption does not increase so much, but still provides higher octane. Its function being that it increase the volatility of the mixture without reducing the basic fuel properties too much.

If it were me i would be using 5% acetone with %10 methanol mix. Only purpose in the case for use of acetone is its mixing agent properties to stop the methanol separating from the fuel.

Sorry not much to do with toluene as such but.... my 2c

What a jungle juice blend i'd have

So, very cheap methanol from where? ( I think i might have a source to test) and same for acetone i guess?

[jeffro ra28]

Do you have a CSR plant over there?

You can get the race fuel type methanol which is good (more exxy) from VP or the likes or you can get the dental/food grade methanol from CSR for a shit load cheaper but isnt as good however we still used it in the drag cars, sprint cars etc succesfully.

[JustenGT8]

Dunno mate i'll have to check on CSR. Pretty much a once off (well thrice off ) for this tune and a couple events before the ITBs go on and the switch to E85.

I really need E85 to turn up at a Canberra servo before the switch. I toyed with the idea of orders drum from Powerplus Fuels but apart from the etxra cost i'm not that keen having a 44 of ethanol sitting around next to the house

[jeffro ra28]

Oh, im going to assume you know the cons of running meth through your fuel system also

Shouldnt be so bad since its only 10% tho.

What ya reckon?

[trdee]

It is not carcinogenic, it is teratogenic, and only class 2 at that. The only serious hazard associated with Toluene is its flammability.

my bad, mustve been thinking of benzene

[JustenGT8]

Right'O...methanol is sorted enough for what i need for now anyways.

Yeah all cool Jeffro, well aware of meth and the nasty things it does to alloy and rubber lines. As you say, 10% shouldn't cause any issues and i'll only be using it for a coupla tanks worth.

I think i'll add the toluene too just to make sure i get a good mix...... i have some meth/fuel premixed as well and doesn't seem to be a prob though?