Prototype/Programmable 4AG ECU? Anyone know anything? 56k

[Killswitch]

Hey guys, I have come across this odd 4AG ECU with a partnumber that I cannot match to anything. I posted this on another forum but no-one was able to give me any definitive answers, just ideas. So I thought I would try here seeing you are a fairly cluey bunch.

I bought it on the grounds that it was an AE82 4AG ECU, it came with an AE82 loom.

So here it is, It has a taller case and two PCB boards inside compared to the regular one.

It has the regular Bigport 10,18,14 pins.


Unknown ECU on left, AE86 4AGE ECU on right.

My father reckons the top board is an in circuit emulator after comparing this ECU to others.

Bottom Layer


The two EPROM looking chips.


So yeah, thats kind of it. It definetly makes sense that it could be a developmental/prototype ECU as it looks like you could edit the program on the two chips. But has anyone seen/heard of one of these or any idea who might have? Would be cool to have a programmable factory ECU.

For reference here's the other forum I posted it on and the ideas they had, unfortunately the image host I used has died overnight but maybe it'll come good.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/bo...howtopic=39911

Ideas/input would be ace!

Cheers

[timbosaurus]

No real idea what it is, but it's bloody cool!

It is common for OEM to use "instrumented" ECU's for development, but how this has made it out is amazing

Out of curiosity, are you aware if anyone has ever developed a way to remap standard 4AG (16v or 20v) ECU's?

Nice find... Timbo

[Draven]

what's the extra plug up the top for? (top referenced from above pic). some sort of dongle plug tuning type connector?

any chance it's a retrofit into factory ECU case?
the tech in there looks a lot more advanced than the fairly rudimentary AE8x efi gear

[Killswitch]

As far as I know you cannot remap a standard 4AG ECU, unless you were to remove the CPU and put your own socket on or some such? Similar to this expansion board I would gather. Willing to be proved wrong though.

The extra plug as in the blue blug at the bottom of the picture? It appears to be an interface of some sorts. Very much like a Harddrive IDE plug but with more pins.

The case seems very Toyota, identical dimensions with other 4AGE ecus bar height. Are there other toyota ECUs that are same dimensions as 4AGE cases except for height? the case is approx 40mm tall as opposed to 30mm that a regular 4A case is.

[PlacentaJuan]

mines and blitz do similar things with 1jz and 2jz.

with the difficulties of finding a tuner for these, plus the price people expect others to pay, you would be much better off going full replacement or piggyback.

[oldcorollas]

thought about asking toyota about the part number?
i'll ask here next time i go..

[wilbo666]

Part number doesn't come up on EPC Oldrolla...

A few things I note...

The actual alloy case is slightly different, to alloy for the mounting for the upper PCB...

The upper PCB looks to be made by ND (same as the 'ECU')... as the number on the side looks to be in the same font that ND usually use...

Those things lead me to thinking it is a 'Toyota' item...?



Cheers
Wilbo

[oldcorollas]

i checked at the toyota spare parts company today in japan.

they do not have any listing of that part number, 89661-316D0 on any of their lists as a part available for sale (to customer or workshop)

they agreed it was a strange part number

[toyoda]

Killswitch,

These are Engineering ECU's

They usually arrive with a Batch of ROMS with differing maps on them.

They try each one in turn and then report back to TMC as to the best match, from memory there was a cold start problem on one of the models and they where some used in Oz for that.

I think on MR2.

The larger cover is a bit of a giveaway.

Toyoda.

[Killswitch]

Cheers for following it up oldcorollas.

So if these are engineering ECU's, does that mean if I had the neccesary tools and program that I could remap some roms and fiddle with it? I suppose there isn't much point though given the availibility of aftermarket ECU's.

But if the technology happened to be sitting around somewhere and I could get my hands on it that would be a bit of fun and quite interesting.

[gixer]

I know it's not a car, but I own a Honda Homolgation bike called an RC45, the standard ecu(which I don't run, I run a HRC ecu due to HRC engine parts fitted) but the standard ecu has a removable eprom and additional wiring harness.

I have talked to many people involved with these bikes, racing etc, and we can only come to the conclusion that somehow my bike was fitted with a development ecu. None of the road bike guys or race guys had ever seen one like this before!

one of the guys I work with actually 'sucked' the program out of it and had software to modify it!

[beerhead]

I'd say it is programmable, but not on the fly. If you know someone with an eprom programmer you should be able to rip the data off the 2 plug in chips on the board. Open them up in a hex editor and put the view in decimal mode. Hiding in the sea of data there will be a fuel map and an ignition map. If you're lucky the 2 chips will be identical in code, apart from the tune maps within them. So there is a chance you can find the raw data hiding in there somewhere. Its how the SR20 and CA18 factory ecu eprom editor was originally made. Are there any jumpers on the board that lets you pick between the 2 chips?

[toyoda]

Good Point.

I wonder if the one marked FO is Fuel and the one marked I is Ignition.

Could be coincidental but I dont think so - would allow them to try differing Fuel maps against Ignition Maps.




Toyoda

[Killswitch]

I can't see any obvious jumpers on the board to switch between so what toyoda says is probably the go. One chip for fuel maps, one for ignition.

Is it possible it could have been edited on the fly with whatever connected to the blue connection above the ECU pins?

[toyoda]

Might have been edited on the fly in Japan by TMC but not here in Oz.

The ones I have seen came as seperate trial units or with a box of Rom's.

I tried one on a 4age in a Ae86 but while it ran it was as rich as hell and didnt like to start.
I think that AW11 injector wiring may have been different but couldnt be bothered to look, just put in a standard ECU.



Toyoda

[Killswitch]

Yeah I have a standard AE86 ECU here, and should be getting a standard AE82 ecu this weekend. So will use one of them for the car when its finally running. But may put this Rom ecu in and just see what it does at some stage. Worth a tinker I reckon.

[auto351]

Very nice ECU,

Hard to say if this is a Toyota part but what I do know is the CPU D151801 can run with external ROM of 64K, (normally its 12K internal)

The D151801 when used with internal ROM has 2 I/O ports for running injectors coil and the like, But when you run in external mode you use the 2 I/O for addressing, the piggyback board also has a PIA with provides 2 I/O ports so this board is emulating the D151801 while running external memory.

The two memory chips 32K & 16K I’m not sure if one holds the machine code while the other holds the maps as in the standard ECU they are mixed in the available 12K.

Reprogramming would be very simple with your standards EPROM programmer, what do you put into it maybe a lot harder.


If this was a Toyota development unit they would keep the coding the same (mix code and maps together ) so they can then port the code across to the smartcard CPU without to many changes, so there would be no reason to fit 48K of ROM as this would never fit into the standard 12K CPU.

I would think some one has made up this board with the Denso logo to pass it as factory ECU or maybe some type of rally special fitted to race car.

The on-board bus carries a lot of info like timing fuel mixture & that plug may be a serial interface to log real time data,

More info on fuel maps, timing maps, code extraction, dissembler available here,
Let me know if you want to part with it?

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73379

[3p141592654]

Just to clarify, the 2732 is a 4kByte EPROM, and the 2716 is a 2kByte, so the total storage space here is 6kByte, about right for this vintage of processor.

[IH8TEC]

sard do similar ecu's for the 4age 20v's, raises the rpm limiter with different ignition and fuel maps, possibly similar in your case.

put on a dyno, do a run, swap them over do a run again, you may notice a difference, only way to tell.

[auto351]

killswitch,

Are you able to backup your EPROMS and email me the code?
I will run it through the decompiler and see what comes out.

also cant really see the full numbering on the white CPU in the standard ECU are you able to post the numbering for both CPU chips?