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Thread: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

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    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    I'm in the process of rebuilding my bigport 4agze with smallport 4agze pistons. I just came accross some new genuine toyota rings to suit bigport pistons for a great price, are they interchangable with the later model smallprot pistons?

    Thanks in advance
    ae92 4agte (TD04L)

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    SC14 7AGZE Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    Sorry. Big-port piston rings are all the same 18mm pin, 20mm pin and 8.0:1 GZE pistons being alike, while small-port piston rings are different. The smallport high compression 4AGE and 8.9 GZE pistons rings being alike.

    Basically once they went to a smallport head the piston rings changed also. So bigport piston rings wont work.

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    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    Thanks heaps for that mate! +rep coming your way.

    just another quick easy question, is there any drama using the 8.9:1 pistons which are found in the smallport 4agze with an otherwise standard spec first generation 4agze block (3 rib and normally 8.0:1)

    Thanks
    ae92 4agte (TD04L)

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    DIY Bloodline Domestic Engineer Talasas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    I can confirm that the 10.3:1 4AGE and the 8.9:1 4AGZE piston rings are the same, I'm using ones that are the same spec for both.
    "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move." -HHGG

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    Olde mechanic Automotive Encyclopaedia oldeskewltoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo4agte
    Sorry. Big-port piston rings are all the same 18mm pin, 20mm pin and 8.0:1 GZE pistons being alike,

    Does that include the OEM 10 to 1 O/S pistons supplied to Singapore and "EUG"? I have a set on order and the rings listed for them in the EPC are discontinued........ I figured there are enough ring makers to find a set somewhere.... but I have yet to KNOW what rings I'll be using.........
    Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

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    Senior ****** Carport Converter Sam_Q's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    i though the top ring was 1,5mm for earlier models while the small port and a 20v has a 1.2mm thick ring? i know my 20v is 1.2mm

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    SC14 7AGZE Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    cam_ra40-
    No problem. The other way around, yes there would be a problem because the smallport blocks have oil squirters and the pistons skirts wont clear them on older pistons, so no 8.0:1 pistons in small port blocks. But if your doing the ohter way around, planning newer 8.9:1 in older block, your okay.

    oldeskewltoy-
    Cant help there. I was even unaware there was a "european" piston difference. I was always told the HP difference was the MAP based ECU.

    Sam Q-
    I no longer have any smallport pistons or I would measure the ring groove diameters, sorry, cant help there. I also have no experience with 20Vs. But I do believe the top ring was the main difference

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    Junior Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    Thanks for that guys, i was pretty sure the pistons would be okay in my older block. i'm going to just buy the pistons and measure what ring the need to confirm.
    ae92 4agte (TD04L)

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    Olde mechanic Automotive Encyclopaedia oldeskewltoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo4agte
    cam_ra40-


    oldeskewltoy-
    Cant help there. I was even unaware there was a "european" piston difference. I was always told the HP difference was the MAP based ECU.
    Part of confusion with 4AGE, or 4AGEC. The 4AGEC is in almost ALL markets, and it distinguished with 9.4 to 1 CR. The 4AGE is real, was available in "Singapore" and "EUG"(European) and has a compression ration of 10 to 1. You seem to know(I don't so I'll accept) that "EUG" means European. I was never sure of that... but the EPC shows "Singapore" as the other market... no need for confusion there. I verified their existence with Borneo Motors, and then put my US dealer to work hunting a set down for me.........

    The reason these are important to me is my newest build requires a high compression piston for the 18mm rods. Prior to finding these I had stock... or forged as the only options. Forged are fine(mass is a bit more than OEM cast though). I'm also not a fan of forged *IF* you don't have a need... I also don't like cold piston slap - an issue that can be associated with forged pistons. Finding this OEM piston gives me 7/10 of a compression point BEFORE I cut anything or use a thinner gasket. It allows me to tailor the compression rise - I hope to get to 10.75 to 1. I'm at 10 to one now with unshaved head, undecked block stock gasket. I figured I'd unshroud the CC and polish the areas it says in the TRD Bible... then have the head shaved .2mm the shave should bring the combustion chanbers back to a similar volume as prior to the port/polish. I then figure a .5mm TRD gasket and I'm roughly at 10.75 to 1.........

    I live in emissions area in the USA so I can't go TOOOOO radical. I have a few friends running 11+ CR and they can use the stock computer and 91/93(USA high octane) octane fuel and manage with a bit of ignition retard. I'm running a redtop (10.3) on a TVIS head and I can use 89 octane(USA mid grade). Based on what I currently have, and what they have... Logic would say the medium point of CR and ability to run it on stock ignition with NO timing change would be about 10.75.

    Why is the compression change that important???? Simple... my friend.... running 11 to 1... has a dyno run showing 118 wheel hp, with 103 #-ft of torque. Add 20% for rwd drivetrain loss and you are at 141 crank hp....... Rather good numbers considering STOCK CAMS!!! Btw... I was there that day and my 10.3 to one engine with web 294 mild cams planted 109hp (my car had brand new wheel bearings - less than a week old, so I figure a 1-2 hp loss for the new bearings) The point is we used the same dyno on the same day..


    OH....why I'm running 18mm rods....???? Well let me give you a bit more info.... I'm building a STREET engine... better all around power, I'm planning on running a smallport head with a cut/reversed intake(for now....) I plan on running a 7 rib block(can't be oil squirter UNLESS I mod pistons). In essence I'm going to run the lightest(3 rib) internals inside the stoutest block design, with the best cylinder head for flow. I'll likely run the blktop flywheel(lighter than all the other OEM... about 3.5#s more than Toda(or similar)

    I NEED to stay emissions compliant, I'm looking for just a we bit more power.... (don't we all..........)
    Last edited by oldeskewltoy; 09-02-2008 at 04:55 AM.
    Information is POWER... learn the facts!!

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    SC14 7AGZE Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    Im usually not one to judge, but I dont see how you can make 118whp at the wheels, up from the stock 95whp on simple compression increase. at 11:1 thats 1.6 compression ponts over stock.

    1.6 does not = 20hp. Especially not with the cam timing being thrown off by the head shaved that much, and the ignition timing being retarded. If you told me he tuned it with cam gears, ran 100 octane and a stock ignition advance and tweaked fuel curve I can easily see 118-120whp, but with those things against him, I'd look for dyno calibration error.

    Good luck with the build. Emission and racing is like oil and water, but I hope you get thru.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Grease Monkey
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    Default Re: 4AGZE bigport and smallport piston rings - are they the same??

    Sorry for bumping up a 3 years old thread.

    I just need a confirmation on piston rings on 4AGZE 16V 8.9 CR being the same with 4AGE 16V 10.3 CR.. Both should have same 20mm wrist pins.

    If it matters, i am talking about 0.50mm overbore pistons.

    Got a quote for a set the 4AGZE rings at 3x the price of the 4AGE. If they're simply the same, i'll be saving lots of money.. Help?

    What's bothering me is that the part numbers are different.
    0.50mm 10.3CR 4AGE 16V piston rings: 13013-16200
    0.50mm 8.9CR 4AGZE 16V piston rings: 13013-16210

    Different part numbers doesn't necessarily mean different part?

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