Another noob 18RG question

[tricky]

Yet another question...

I got my bits back from being machined today, and I went to install my new hastings rings... But then I read the instructions... Previously, my rings were ACL products, and the second compression ring was installed correctly with the dot facing upwards. BUT, according to the hastings instructions, the second compression ring goes the other way. WTF? See image.



I'm pretty sure the diagram above is right due to different ring design, but I just wanna confirm.

Another question: How should I tune a rebuilt engine? Should I leave the carbs as is and just get out and bed the rings ASAP, or should I roughly tune the carbs a bit before I flog it. As I understand it, idling a new engine is bad...

Cheers in advance,
Tricky

[river]

Hi,

I'd say the diagram is correct, considering I assume you got both rings (per piston) from the one manufacturer.

A newly rebuilt engine shouldn't be kept at the same rpm for too long a period. So, you need to vary the speed a bit as you drive. Try and avoid redline, but do some 60kph in 3rd gear, and some in 4th gear - stuff like that to allow the engine to have varying rpm to enable the piston rings to bed-in evenly.

Not sure about the carbs, but, if it was me, I'd see how the engine performs after the rebuild and if it seems to run okay I'd leave the carby retune until I got about 1000km done on the engine, then I'd think about getting the carbs done. And, when getting the carbs done I'd get them fully pulled down and rebuilt with new floats, jets, diaphrams and gaskets.

However, I'd get new plugs, leads, points etc and get the timing done on the engine as soon as it was rebuilt.

seeyuzz
river

[river]

Hi,

Yeah, yeah... me again...

Obviously you're putting in new oil and a new GENUINE TOYOTA oil filter after the rebuild. After 1000km I'd replace the oil and the oil filter. When you get the carbs done also replace the fuel filter.

They're a tough engine and, if looked after, it'll last you many years.

seeyuzz
river

[EldarO]

River = the 18rg mastah!

theres a couple of good sites that breakdown the process of breaking in an engine, there are two camps on this subject, one is to slowly get the engine used to running, and slowly get higher and higher RPM's out of it, and the other camp is to not thrash it, but make it work hard straight off the bat, both camps work, but the "work it" method is generally not used, so there arent many examples of durability...

have a search around on the old forums, and youll come across a gold mine.

Eldar.O.

[barned01]

there is also a running in oil you can buy that i chucked in mine for the first 1000 k's or so.
if you want the brand i can get it for you, its in the shed.....ah blow it i will just get it for you anyway...runs to shed...penzoil running in oil tis what its called.
i fanged mine up a few hills after i got the timing right and knew it wasn't going to overheat.
various gears various loads up to about 5000 revs, that was 10 thousand kays ago and it iss still going good noow.

River's advice is good though this was just my experiences after rebuilding mine.

[tricky]

However, I'd get new plugs, leads, points etc and get the timing done on the engine as soon as it was rebuilt.

seeyuzz
river

What are points? Lecky ignition rules!

Lads, your theories on running in engines follows my knowledge. It's always nice to be backed up too .

River, I'd like to test the genuine toyota filter against the Z418 filter sometime with regards to peak oil pressure, build up time and stability. I was running a Z418 on my engine for the last 1500km before I stripped it down. The advantages with the non-genuine filter are the anti-drainback valve, and a smaller size. Both of these factors should assist in quick building, stable pressure... Genuine it is until I run it in though!

My reservation about running in the engine on the carbs in the tune they had on the previous engine stems from the fact that the engine was well and truly stuffed! Compression was down big time. I'm thinking about just doing the "1 1/2 turns from fully in" rough method of tuning to be on the safe side.

[river]

Hi,

River, I'd like to test the genuine toyota filter against the Z418 filter sometime with regards to peak oil pressure, build up time and stability. I was running a Z418 on my engine for the last 1500km before I stripped it down. The advantages with the non-genuine filter are the anti-drainback valve, and a smaller size. Both of these factors should assist in quick building, stable pressure... Genuine it is until I run it in though!

My reservation about running in the engine on the carbs in the tune they had on the previous engine stems from the fact that the engine was well and truly stuffed! Compression was down big time. I'm thinking about just doing the "1 1/2 turns from fully in" rough method of tuning to be on the safe side.

Hehehehe lecky ignition... you young guys and your dangfangled moder stuff

When you do the oil filter comparison take notes and put it up on the site. It will be interesting to note the differences.

I see your point about the carbs. I'd do the same as you and do a crude tune on them and see how it runs. If the carbs are too rooted then they'll need to be rebuilt asap 'cos you don't want to have the engine spluttering and getting all cantecerous when she's all new - which will make you wonder if it's the carbs or the rebuild that's got an issue.

Post up your results of the rebuild (+ the oil filter comparo) and I think I'll throw some +ve rep your way for good info.

seeyuzz
river

[tricky]

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showth...6546#post26546

There is my running commentary on the rebuild. It's just starting to get interesting!

The carbs (45DCOE) should be right without a rebuild. They were last done in 05/05, and they haven't been treated too badly.

Oh, and I woulda thrown you some positive rep, but it told me to spread the love...

[river]

Hi,

Cool, I'll check it out. I saw your post in the "tractor engine.. 18RG" thread about not being able to get gaskets. You could try Castle Hill Toyota and ask for James Sloane. He's their import specialist and knows his way around the parts for JDM Celicas and their engines. He may be able to source you some gaskets or tell you who does. Failing that you could ask Witzl or Rod 'cos they're quite helpful chappies on getting these sort of things.

Spread the love, eh? Hehehehe... haven't seen that message yet. Good advice 'cos I'm a member and the rep points are not all that important to my functionality on these forums. Yeah, spread the love and shower it upon those of our breteren who need the points so they can do the things they need to around here.

seeyuzz
river

[barned01]

shucks
hey what is the issue with just getting some gasket paper and cutting out the shape you require, i have made countless gaskets that way after the original one was well used (used it as a tempate though).
I have the GEU setup though so i don't know if making gaskets for the carb version would be different.
I traced the main gaskets that I got in my geu rebuild kit if you need a particular one...

[EldarO]

gasket paper is used as a seal, any kind of pressure/unfavourable condition will cause them to disintegrate/fail.

for just general stuff, they work well, anything serious and it will fail, besides, you dont get the fit you would with a genuine replacement.

Eldar.O.

[o_man_ra23]

Gday,
In my personal experience ive found it favourable to change the oil at 400km, not worrying about changing the filter, and changing oil and filter at 1000kms. Reason being that the first 400km is where MOST of the ring wear-in will occur. This means theres a whole heap of shit floating about your sump at that point in time. Oh, and dont use a good oil to run in your engine (other than specific running in oil) as the good oils are too slippery, and the rings wont wear in. I generally use either a proper running in oil, or something $5 and really crappy from kmart etc. The lack of lubricating properties of the cheap oil actually works in the same manner as the running in oil, things like allowing the rings to wear into the bores, but still washing away all the grit. Oh, and i went from using a Z68 to Z148 filter on my RG, and the difference was most measurable and pleasurable.

As for the carbs, run them a little on the rich side to start with.

Cheers, Owen

[scootaphill]

im with o man set the carbs a little rich to start with. i also use the Z418 filter with no oil pressure problems 60psi from start up no fluttering at all (RGEU)

cheers

[The Witzl]

GENUINE oil filters for this kid thanks

[scootaphill]

GENUINE oil filters for this kid thanks

everyone says to use the genuine oil filter because they are better... HOW is it better? what advantage is gained by using a genuine oil filter? convince me and i'll change

cheers
phill

[Flano]

ive got a ryco filter on my celica, and my mate work's at a toyota workshop somewhere and can get me bit's a peice's cheap uncertain if they STILL stock the toyota oil filter, but if they do ... is it worth getting ?...

-Flano.