AE86 Gearbox Conversion Options

[Garth AE86]

Seeing as my T50 is about to explode any day now i've been pondering what options i have for my AE86 to strengthen my driveline a little but retain factory shifter position and close to the same ratios. Also ive just replaced my clutch wth an exedy racing unit so id like to get a 'box that can use the same clutch.

Seems the popular choice right now is the W58 conversion but seems expensive and the bellhousings are somewhat time consuming to aquire.

Does anyone have a tried and tested conversion they have done? Do they ratios match that of the T50. Does the shifter position stay the same?

also, does anyone have the exact ratios of the T50, W series boxes and any other 5 speed manual toyota gearboxes, even other manufacturers if you have them.

thanks

[gianttomato]

Ratios here.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/P...Gearboxes.html

Can't comment about the rest so wait for the lads that have done the conversion to chime in. Suffice to say that the W58 (and releated boxes) come with enough shifter position options that you should be able to find one that suits.

As for the clutch, an interim option might be to simply replace the clutch plate with one that is the same diameter as your current one but carries the same spline as the new box - I think the W50/58 boxes are 21 teeth, 29mm - no idea what the T50 is.

[Garth AE86]

thanks gt much obliged.
the gearbox guide is awesome. exactly what i was after.

i belive the w58 and t50 are the same spline/teeth/mm. someone confirm/deny?

the w58 is an option i know works with the ae86 in every way, its just 10kg heavier and requires a bellhousing that takes a LONG time to get to your doorstep.

[Garth AE86]

GB      Reverse      1st         2nd          3rd         4th       5th         Weight       Spline (# teeth/mm)

T50	   -3.484        3.587	  2.022	1.384	1	   0.861      25.5kg       22 / ??mm 
W58	   -3.768        3.285	  1.894	1.275	1	   0.783      35kg          21 / 29mm

T-50 Gearbox

The T-50 gearbox has a separate bell housing, utilises a hydraulic clutch and comprises 4 main alloy castings: bell housing, two diagonally split gear casings and a tail housing. This gearbox is often referred to as the ‘split case’ alloy 5 speed and weighs 29 kg. The ONLY bell housings that will mate a T-50 gearbox to a 4AGE come from a RWD 'A' series engine (3A/4A/4AGE).

The T-50 bell housing has letters cast externally into the top section between the uppermost bell housing to engine block bolt bosses that identify the engine it came from, ie 3A or 4AG etc. 3A and 4A bell housings have the clutch fork on the LHS while 4AG bell housings place it on the RHS.

The T-50 gearbox was fitted to other engines as well, such as 1S and 3T etc. The gearbox itself is identical, however, the bell housings differ to suit the parent engine. There are also two types of T-50 gearbox, referred to as 20 and 22 spline. This relates to the number of splines on the gearbox output shaft. There is also a difference in the diameter of the input shaft bearing, which is covered by the bell housing: 62 mm vs 68 mm. The 68 mm bearing is in the 22 spline gearbox. The 22 spline gearbox is more desirable as it is stronger. It is also what all RWD 4AGEs came with.

In general terms gearboxes made 1983 or newer are 22 spline. This means that 3T, 1S, 3A and 4A engines have 22 spline units. 2Ts are 20 spline - so be careful. The AE 85/86 and AA 63 series T-50 gearboxes are 650 mm long from the engine end of the bell housing to the centre of the gear lever mount, however, apparently some tail shaft housings fitted to earlier 20 spline gearboxes are shorter, hence allowing relocation of the gear lever with some mixing and matching of components. I have never seen one of these gearboxes.

In reality a 22 spline gearbox is the only one you can use because it is the only one that will mate correctly with an A series bell housing and handle the power.

T50 SERIES

* All alloy, and split joint like a suitcase.
* 7 bolts at front and bell housing acts as front cover seal
* Input bearing varies ø62 (nose cover - round) ø68 (nose cover - square)
* (Conversion bell housing has to match the bearing size)
* Output spline varies depending on bearing size.
* 2 gearlever positions, 390mm and 490mm
* No real markings on gearbox
* 27 kg dry weight

W55 - W59 SERIES - "SUPRA"

* From 1985 onwards
* Fitted to 6 cylinder cars 2000cc up to 3000cc (single turbo).
* Out of Celica, Supra, Cressida, Hilux 2WD and others,
* (comes in floor shift and column shift).
* No real markings on gearbox.
* At front has 9 bolts, 2 dowels, 250mm high, 197mm wide.
* Several gearlever positions. 455mm, 515mm, 530mm, from front face of gearbox.
* (3 options on driveshaft yoke size)
* 34 Kg dry weight.

[Billzilla]

I may have a 4AG-to-W bell housing for sale.
I just brought a few into the country, and it looks like I may have a spare that was wanted but now isn't.
$390 posted anywhere in Aus.
Lemme know.

[Hen]

I did a little research about boxes, and to me it really seems the only options in a sprinter are:
- Stick with a normal T50 and just be prepared to change it occasionally if you drive like a maniac.
- Get a serious gearset for your T50 (expensive, but there are plenty of options)
- Go for a W5* (Not cheap, but commonly done and pretty bulletproof)
- Fit an IS200 6 speed (Very expensive, very custom)

I think unless it is a track or rally car or you run SERIOUS forced induction, just stick with a normal T50, run good oil and try and have a little mechanical sympathy. They will put up with a serious amount of shit before letting go.

And W5* and T50 input shaft splines are definitely different

[Garth AE86]

I may have a 4AG-to-W bell housing for sale.
I just brought a few into the country, and it looks like I may have a spare that was wanted but now isn't.
$390 posted anywhere in Aus.
Lemme know.

ahh will certainly call you if i decide to go w58 route.

- Get a serious gearset for your T50 (expensive, but there are plenty of options)

i was thinking about completely rebuilding my T50 with new bearings/synchros/gaskets/shifter, straight ('dogbox') cut 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears with standard 4th and 5th gears to retain driveability on the street.

Has anyone priced aftermarket gearsets for the T50? TRD and Quaife are the only 2 companies i know who manufacture these items and i'm expecting at least a couple of grand for a simple 1,2,3 dogbox gearset. not to mention the rest of bearing etc and the labour... $4000 gearbox ... argh.

The engine will be a hi-comp 190-200ps (flywheel) NA 16v 4A-GE. I'll be running my current T Series with a 4.5:1 ring gear mated to a 2 way cusco RS LSD unit. So the new GB will not see a great deal of torque in reality, but needs to deal with 9000rpm gear shifts regular circuit days and occasional abuse at drift events.

[Celica RA45]

ivan albins in victoria have ratios for T50 boxes they make new 1st up to 5th plus also new cluster rings as well last i was quoted $ 550 a gear or pair including gst ,so you are looking at 1st 2nd 3rd and 5th $ 2200 for 4 gears and thats welded onto your cluster as well in that price
they are in wendoree ballarat

[Hen]

High RPM shouldn't kill the box. Torque and clutch-kicks do that.

Try PPG, Modena, Albins or have a look through a few rally mags for gearsets. I've heard TRD sets go for about $2000. No backup on that last one though.

Hen

And you could well be pushing the limits of highway driveability with a 4.5 diff. A touch over 4k rpm at 110.

[Garth AE86]

ivan albins in victoria have ratios for T50 boxes they make new 1st up to 5th plus also new cluster rings as well last i was quoted $ 550 a gear or pair including gst ,so you are looking at 1st 2nd 3rd and 5th $ 2200 for 4 gears and thats welded onto your cluster as well in that price
they are in wendoree ballarat

cheers mate. big help right there.

High RPM shouldn't kill the box. Torque and clutch-kicks do that.

Try PPG, Modena, Albins or have a look through a few rally mags for gearsets. I've heard TRD sets go for about $2000. No backup on that last one though.

And you could well be pushing the limits of highway driveability with a 4.5 diff. A touch over 4k rpm at 110.

yeah, i figured its probably the clutch which suffers at the high rpm eh? thanks for those lesser known companies, ill give them a shot. and TRD sounds about right, but they arent dog cut are they?

ps, 4.5:1 ring gear @ 110kph is about 4100rpm, and yes its quite loud but bearable. thats why ill be keeping 4th and 5th standard for long drives. maybe even a taller 5th simply for highway cruising comfort.

[Celica RA45]

just another note i use to run a 4.55 but have gone back to a 4,3 ratio as it isnt as harse on the box when you go down the gears as with the 4,55 always goes over the rev limit

[mc68]

the full dog engagement 1-5 quaife gearset is about 3000 pounds i think?

makes 1st dogleg *sex*

[ae86trueno]

I am running TRD gearset 33030-AE851 in my t50 behind a very torquey 4AGE ( big cams, quads ect)with a button clutch and after 7 Seasons it is still great, its had a couple of rebuilds in that time, and gets oil changed regularly, but are indestructible, this gearset has new 1,2 and 3 gears, only ratios for 1 and 2 have changed. They Cost about $2000 but are worth it.

ratios are
1st.-2.630
2nd.-1.891
3rd.-1.384
5th.-0.861

Ben.

[Garth AE86]

the full dog engagement 1-5 quaife gearset is about 3000 pounds i think?

makes 1st dogleg *sex*

three thousand POUNDS??? *dies*

I am running TRD gearset 33030-AE851 in my t50 behind a very torquey 4AGE ( big cams, quads ect)with a button clutch and after 7 Seasons it is still great, its had a couple of rebuilds in that time, and gets oil changed regularly, but are indestructible, this gearset has new 1,2 and 3 gears, only ratios for 1 and 2 have changed. They Cost about $2000 but are worth it.

ratios are
1st.-2.630
2nd.-1.891
3rd.-1.384
5th.-0.861

Ben.

what do you mean by rebuilds? im not shy of changing the oil every 10,000 kms.
are the gears themselves stronger in any sense? what material are they?
which final drive do you use? do you find the car has a more usable powerband in gears 1 and 2? at the moment i find myself using 3rd a great deal because of the shortness of 2nd. what are your thoughts?

[Evan]

I have an AE71 box in my ae86..
I swear it has shorter raitos
Its great what ever it has.
Cheap t00

[ae86trueno]

Rebulds as in Bearings and syncros, but ive only done it once in 3 seasons, and the provious owner of the car had done it once as well.
Gears appear to be of a semi Helical tpye of gear (inbetween straight, and helical) ie there is more surface area contact between the gears,

I am using 5.1 final drive but its not streatable.
I still use 2nd during rally's for slow corners but it will still do about 80 in second.
With the TRD your speed in 2nd will be greater
STD 2.022
TRD 1.891

Ben.

[Garth AE86]

ben,

whats the approx cost of your rebuilds?
do you use genuine parts?
do you do the work yourself? if not where do you get them overhauled?

sorry for the questions, but you're a wealth of knowledge on this kinda stuff

[Celica RA45]

well to give you an idea had my TA63 trd box done and just to replace syncros and bearings plus 2 selector shafts and some springs was 830 dollars and thats me pulling it out and putting it back

[ae86trueno]

It cost me $700 to rebuild the box using genuine syncros (only did 1 to 4) and aftermarket bearings, did all the work myself except change the new bearings, wich only cost me a couple of $$ to get done from a gearbox place because i just took both shafts to them and didnt take them long to do. A road gearbox isnt going to be abused like the racecar gearbox, and should last you a long time if maintained.

but you're a wealth of knowledge on this kinda stuff

I know, now update my reputation

[Garth AE86]

i will

but it wont do shit..