2GR-FE in a MKII MR2!

[wagonist]

Gearboxes yes. Transfer cases, well that's another story. There's at least 4 concentric shafts running between them, which all have to be lined up for the transfer case to fit upto the rest of the box.

Anyway, this is getting off topic.
I'll do some investigation about this myself.

Gouky, any plans to run a supercharger or anything later?
Mind you, the power you've got is pretty good considering that Australian Spec Aurions with this motor are rated to have that power at the flywheel.

Anyone know the conversion factor to change ft.lbs into Nm? I always get this one mixed up.

[big_zop]

Wagonist - 1ft.lb = 1.356 N.m (1.355 817 952 to be specific)

I originally thought the dyno graph was of the power at the engine (due to the same assumption). Considering that all he has upgraded is the exhaust and intake plus utilised a manual transmission, that impressive!

Are you thinking of ditching the 3S for some V6 power or have another car in mind?

[wagonist]

More after the V6 torque.
I need a car for work, but I also needed at least a RWD tow car. Wasn't particular fussed on the 2 locally made big cars.
I was thinking about a 1MZ or 3MZ, but if something newer with at least the same power is available & will fit, then why not?
I was thinking of hanging a small low boost turbo off of the front bank to help out too.

[Gouky]

Originally Posted by wagonist

Have you ever pulled apart an AWD Toyota transmission before?

i'm not sure what you're getting at. i personally haven't pulled this transmission appart, but the transfer case on these does not require opening to install. the 2wd version has a block-off plate that you simply remove and install the transfer case onto.

Originally Posted by wagonist

Mind you, the power you've got is pretty good considering that Australian Spec Aurions with this motor are rated to have that power at the flywheel.

Anyone know the conversion factor to change ft.lbs into Nm? I always get this one mixed up.

the power corrected is:
205KW
339NM

keep in mind there was a .95correction because it was a cold day so the actual measured power to the ground was 5% higher

i do have plans for a supercharger, unfortunately i haven't solved the electronics side of it yet. Motec is the only ECU that can handle the cams on this thing which is why i'm trying to get someone in Australia to get a hold of a TRD ECU for me. or the CUW file from one.

if i can get the electronics solved, my intention is for 260-300KW to the ground. (350-400HP)

[Gouky]

i stand corrected... there are two shafts and the diff needs to be swapped:



or you could just use the all-trac transmission to begin with since it has the same bolt-patern and then there are no internals to swap.

[Mos]

Originally Posted by Gouky

the power corrected is:
205KW
339NM

Not wanting to start a power figure war, but don't forget these are U.S. power figures which correspond closer to the flywheel output than chassis output.
What was the rated output for the donor vehicle?

Awesome conversion and awesome result

Mos.

[Gouky]

Originally Posted by Mos

Not wanting to start a power figure war, but don't forget these are U.S. power figures which correspond closer to the flywheel output than chassis output.
What was the rated output for the donor vehicle?

Awesome conversion and awesome result

Mos.

right, i understand the differences, that's why if you scroll up a few posts i actualy took it to the dyno to see what it puts to the ground.

Toyota rates the avalon at 268HP stock, this is i beleive a flywheel rating. i suspect most of my additional power came from the free flowing exhaust and headers that i added. the stock peices were very restrictive. especialy the y-pipe.

[Mos]

Originally Posted by Gouky

right, i understand the differences, that's why if you scroll up a few posts i actualy took it to the dyno to see what it puts to the ground.

Toyota rates the avalon at 268HP stock, this is i beleive a flywheel rating. i suspect most of my additional power came from the free flowing exhaust and headers that i added. the stock peices were very restrictive. especialy the y-pipe.

Hi,

I knew my post would be slightly controversial - maybe what I should've said was: Dynojet dynos, despite being a "chassis" dyno, produce figures closer to the engine's flywheel output. A Dyno Dynamics dyno - which are the most common dynos in Australia - will not produce a figure as high as a Dynojet dyno.

From my experience no stock or lightly modded engine has ever exceeded its factory flywheel rating on a Dyno Dynamics chassis dyno.
Your headers will not account for this sort of amount of additional power, especially on stock engine management.

I make this statement with confidence, as I have an engine (VVTi 1UZ) with (well made) headers and aftermarket management, a manual gearbox, etc, and firstly I have not reached the flywheel rating of either power or torque - 210rwkw vs 216kw, ~380Nm vs 407Nm - AND a similar swap in the US has generated alsmost identical power to mine although it runs factory management and an auto box which simply does not add up. (The readings are consistent across the range of 1UZ engines as this engine makes 50-70rwkw more than an average early 1UZ).

The only comparison I have for your chassis is the SW20 with a 1996 3VZ-FE which factory makes 200hp (149kw) and put down 116.8rwkw last sunday - it is *nowhere* near the factory flywheel rating. He runs factory management and most of the exhaust has been replaced, but I'm not sure about the headers themselves. Regardless, headers will not make a 33kw difference on factory everything else....

I'm sorry, but there *IS* a difference in the way the dynos measure output power, and it is known that Dynojet dynos produce numbers closer to flywheel output than what's commonly understood as chassis output (ie flywheel output minus losses).
This phenomenon has been discussed offline with some of the posters who have posted in this thread, but they may not wish to offend you by agreeing with me publically - not that I wish to offend you either, because I don't.
I don't understand dynos well enough to explain why this is the case, but one thing I do understand is that the likelyhood of a basically stock engine producing a chassis figure higher than the factory rated flywheel figure is extremely low, to none.
There are some notable examples with the JZ series where toyota has provided arficially low power outputs (280hp, or 206kw) which have been exceeded in aftermarket testing, however I don't believe this is the case these days as toyota happily rates the 2GR-FSE at 311hp/232kw.

Respectfully,

Mos.

[Gouky]

no worries, you aren't offending me.

at the end of the day, the car is damn fast and arguing over numbers won't make it any faster/slower. i could care less if the dyno said it had 100rwhp as long as it keeps driving the way it does.

i plan on taking it to the drag strip next summer which will be a much better indicator of power anyways.

[Jaemus]

Originally Posted by Mos

He runs factory management and most of the exhaust has been replaced, but I'm not sure about the headers themselves.

Headers are factory Camry headers. Y pipe and all piping up to the cat was replaced with 2.25", cat and muffler are the same items used on the previous 3SGE setup (IE. smaller than ideal).

.

I like your attitude tho Gouky, and congratulations again on a very successful swap and acheiving what we all badly wanted to see!

[mullett]

Dynos are no-where near as consistent or reliable as people might think they are...that's why the 'shootout mode' was started, to give as close as equal across the board as possible. Basically a dyno is just acting as a brake against the force of the engine, and measuring the energy that's produced. Even a dyno dynamics dyno can read absolutely anything you like if shootout mode is disabled, the operator can double your power at the push of a button. The only way to use dyno output is as a comparison: Do a run, do your mods, then go to the same dyno with the same settings and do another run. For comparison between two cars, it can only be accurately done by doing back to back runs on the same dyno on the same day...

-RM.

[RAd28]

Got any video of this thing in action? I'd love to hear what the 2GR sounds like when you boot it in the guts...

[Gouky]

Originally Posted by RAd28

Got any video of this thing in action? I'd love to hear what the 2GR sounds like when you boot it in the guts...

it isn't very good, but here it is getting up to 4th on the dyno: http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=MVI_2997.flv

and here's the pull: http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=MVI_2998.flv

for some reason the camera split the single recording into two.

[Gouky]

just keeping you guys posted. i want to see if i can hit the 300WHP number with the stock ECU. I'm getting headers manufactured which are a much better design than my original one.



These are 42mm equal length primaries with a 2.25" collector.

The other advantage these have is they will be being made in a production run so i can actually sell some to other people that want this swap. the retail price on these will be lower than my material cost on the initial set that i made personally.

Another note is that i was incorrect about the ECU throwing a fault after 160g/s of MAF air. so it may be possible to shove a few PSI of boost down the stock ECU's throat and it may handle it properly. i intend on instrumenting the fuel injectors to see what my max duty cycle is and if there's room to grow, i'll see about forced injection.

[RAd28]

oo... designed on CAD... i like...

I can't see the merge collector so well, but it looks from that angle like your last bends form part of it... i can only imagine that being a nightmare to cut up. Also, personally i'd break each length of pipe up into it's components... i.e. 2 bends, and 3 straights... just for being pedantic if nothing else...

[Gouky]

Originally Posted by RAd28

oo... designed on CAD... i like...

I can't see the merge collector so well, but it looks from that angle like your last bends form part of it... i can only imagine that being a nightmare to cut up. Also, personally i'd break each length of pipe up into it's components... i.e. 2 bends, and 3 straights... just for being pedantic if nothing else...

Actually no, the collector is only in the strait sections. the merge angle is 12* with each pipe coming in 120* from each other.

I'm not sure what you're asking about the components. all three pipes have two bends each with a 57.5mm radius. also, the last angle coming into the collector is all in the same tangent direction so the exhaust gases should not fight each other as much. but that's just a speculation.

[wagonist]

How common are wrecked 2GR's over there?
I know to fit the AWD (all-trac) transmission onto a 1MZ, that some metal needs to be taken off both the engine & box to make them fit.
All of the AWD transmissions fitted to the 1MZ & 3MZ are automatic, and therefore have a smaller transfer case
It would be interesting to see if the 2GR has some allowance already for a larger transfer case due to the increase in power (206kW vs 173kW).

If Mitsubiski can fit an AWD Lancer EVO gearbox to a V6 Magna...

[Gouky]

Originally Posted by wagonist

How common are wrecked 2GR's over there?
I know to fit the AWD (all-trac) transmission onto a 1MZ, that some metal needs to be taken off both the engine & box to make them fit.
All of the AWD transmissions fitted to the 1MZ & 3MZ are automatic, and therefore have a smaller transfer case
It would be interesting to see if the 2GR has some allowance already for a larger transfer case due to the increase in power (206kW vs 173kW).

If Mitsubiski can fit an AWD Lancer EVO gearbox to a V6 Magna...

the 2GR's are available enough that $2500-3000 US can buy you one any day of the week. there are far more common motors, but Americans like their big motors so there are no shortages of these around.

the 2GR has a very wide crank case to fit 6 bolt mains which makes the older style transfer case impossible to fit, but i bet with a bit of persistence it would be possible to fit one of the newer transfer cases to an E153 transmission.

[wagonist]

Already have an E151F transmission, so it will fit on the same as your E153.
It'd be more of a case of working out how much grinding would be necessary to match the box to the engine.
From someone doing this with a 1MZ motor, this is more because the engine is a V shape and interferes part of the way up the block, not the bottom end.
Too much interference though & there'd be issues with oil & water galleries.

[greywolf]

Any updates on this mate ?