132rwkw 3SGE Gen 3 with only 2 mods?

[AndyTTR]

hhmm... i'm actually thinking i might give this a go now, I'll enquire about how much material is when i get back from my holiday. I'm guessing low grade aluminium would do the job - its not going to be under any load as such.

stu (old one) - i'm also a bit weary, but like i mentioned before - the power only starts tapering off just before the 7200 rev limit on my standard JDM gen 3. With more air through the TB and this thing bolted on, its not too far fetched to believe it peaks at or around the rev limit. 20rwkw gain is kinda borderline on unrealistic though, especially considering the ECU is standard. If its a relatively new engine (<80k's) i guess it'd be believable... i don't think I'd see a 20kw gain on my engine from a bigger TB and this 'power deck'.

enchanter - its not changing the length of the runners, its increasing the volume of the plenum when ACIS kicks in. Effectively the runner length is from the butterflies to the head. Again, not entirely sure how making this volume bigger benefits the engine.

[trd3sg]

andy i think it has more do to with the harmonics of the intake path

with the added space it gives the additional volume to create a 'pressure cushion' just above the butterflies to sort of create a venturi effect in reverse if that makes sense

the way i see it is by increasing the pocket just above the butterflies, when they actually open (acis activated), they cause a phantom vacuum which will pull more air in through the front half of the plenum and the area immediately after the throttle body

it also has the ability to affect the angle of the path that the air must travel in, and perhaps this angle is much more aggresive so that it "rams" it in moreso than the standard setup

i was speaking to mate about harmonics and stuff not long ago and he says that with the old cosworth motors, they used to put spacer plates between the butterflies and by doing so increased the angle of air travel slightly so that it was more beneficial - he explained it differently i cant remember but i will think bout it\ask him and let you know if you like

btw wish me luck for dyno day on sunday

[terryo]

OK, ive built and tried this trick on a Gen 3 engine, and had absolutely ZERO difference on our dyno, when done on its own. . Having said that, we have kept the ACIS functional on our gen 3 NA racer, cause it does produce more torque at a useful point,
The factory Gen 3NA engine in Australian spec produces 129kw@7000 rpm compared with 115kw@6600 for the gen 2.
For the gen 3, this results in just over 112kw at wheels. based on lots of modding experience and dyno time, I really struggle to believe a 30% improvment from those mods, but I'm always open to new ideas.
Whislt peak power may have risen , this happens if you change max revs. That does not mean the useable torque changes, nor does it mean the car will go faster. You need to understand the relationship between torque & power. Dynos directly measure torque and convert that number, to horsepower or kw depending on your maths. basically, comparison of peak horsepower values is meaningless unless you have the dyno chart and torque figures.
The 55mm TB can be bored out to 60mm, but its a shit of a job (read expensive).
The ACIS chamber volume on the gen 3 is 1460cc compared with 1160cc on earliee cars.
I have an article on gen 3 NA mods on my web site. www.roadandtrack.net.au

[Enchanter]

Originally Posted by AndyTTR

.... its not changing the length of the runners, its increasing the volume of the plenum when ACIS kicks in. Effectively the runner length is from the butterflies to the head. Again, not entirely sure how making this volume bigger benefits the engine.

Ahh, well Ive missenterpreted it then. I just cant see the damn pictures.
It still makes very little sence though, all I see it doing is changing the harmonics slightly. I think I would have enough faith in Toyotas engineering in this regard leave it alone unless there is going to be other changes such as cams.

[hamgatan]

Originally Posted by terryo

The 55mm TB can be bored out to 60mm, but its a shit of a job (read expensive).

isnt the factory gen 3 size 60mm? and gen 2 55mm?

[hamgatan]

Plenum gasket -

http://www.therealaussie.com/auto/mr...7315-88460.pdf

youll notice that this rings all the butterflys and actually isnt the same dimensions as the spacer.. so its not going to be a good template to work from as far as creating a spacer..

[AndyTTR]

I'm thinking that's the wrong gasket.



You were after the one labeled 17127 in this picture, but you've got the one numbered 17315A instead. I can look up the complete part number if you'd like? As for tracing, you could use the 'lid' of the ACIS chamber as the template rather than the gasket. What's most important is to get the bolt holes in the right place, the other dimensions aren't as important as long as it seals.

Looking at it this arvo, I dont' think we've got the clearance to fit the spacer under the bonnet of a ST162 anyway. With it sitting 300mm taller and the engine rocked forward (while engine braking) it looks like it'd be real close to hitting the bonnet.

[hamgatan]

fudge youre right... good spot!

i never had that diagram to look at unfortunately.. they just assumed that it was that one when i asked for the plenum gasket... haha oh well ill keep it anyway for a rebuild and go order another...

ive got about 50-60mm clearance still in the MR2 so it should be okay..

also did u get that image from the EPC or do u have a gen III BSB lying around that i can snatch?

[StuC]

still thinking about this. Tomorrow ill have a crack at tracing the chamber and making a gasket for it too. this will give me an internal tracing too. Then i can put it together and one of you engineering guys can make it up in shop. I just dont have the facilities to do it.....dang i kinda miss uni/tafe for that.

[terryo]

gen 3 TB is 60mm. I was saying that the 55mm one can be enlarged.
The purpose of the ACIS chamber is to increase the intake plenum volume . It is not a means of increasing air veloicty as the old TVIS does

[hamgatan]

okay well a small update... ive found a workshop that will mill my TB out to 65mm for $100

schweet.

okay next step is the gaskets which i have acquired.. and the template for them is scanned and is now here --> http://www.therealaussie.com/auto/mr...7127-88460.pdf

next step, cnc the spacer, get longer bolts, and S-AFC...

[Andrew162]

no updates in over 6 months... well since I've acquired a Gen3 3SGE I've decided to have a go at this. so while my Gen3 is out of the car and non-running (and the intake runners need such a clean-up), I'll get a trace outline of the ACIS chamber and see if someone I know in metal fabrication is interested in knocking one of these up. also, referring back to the first page, the 'power deck' also makes the factory plug lead plastic thingy unusable. I wanna be able to use this, even just for stock looks, and it may just be as simple as making a spacer to sit on top of the threaded mount on intake runner chamber #2.

I originally wanted to get one of these from Japan but I saw two of these up for auction, asking for TRIPLE the price noted on the Jap website that the power-deck mod was listed as. gotta be cheaper to make one surely...

[AndyTTR]

there were no updates cos everyone decided it was a load of crap. Increasing the volume of your plenum doesn't give more power on a stock engine. Also, I dont think there's clearance under the bonnet in a ST162 for this device. My advice: save your money and effort for real mods.

Try a search for ACIS, there's a good thread explaining how it works somewhere in the forum.

[hamgatan]

i dont believe its a pile of crap, theres gotta be some power advantage to it.

i just havent bothered because ive focused my energies on a 1JZ conversion...

[Andrew162]

interesting - no updates because everyone decided it was a load of crap, yet no one posted anything adverse lately about this bit of kit? ok I'll admit I didn't consider how it would fit in the 162 engine bay, because I figured if I can dump a complete ST205 cut into a RAV4 bay then I can fit almost anything in a Celica! the plenum might hit the strut tower bar, not too certain after looking in your thread for some ideas. we'll see what happens when I clean up the intake and stuff...

[AndyTTR]

There might be some benefit in it, but not as much as claimed by that website. The gains are probably a combination of the larger throttle body and error in the dyno.

The top of the ACIS chamber pretty much sat flush with the strut tops / bonnet recess on the front quarter panels. If you increased the height by even 10mm I reckon it'd foul on the bonnet (taking into consideration the movement of the engine).

[Andrew162]

I see what you mean. look for PM from me soon, re fitting the Gen3 into the 162 bay, some things I need cleared up.

[AndyTTR]

if anyone's still interested in trying the power deck:
http://page19.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/x25890499

[®usty]

so has anyone tryed with the 'power deck' & the Beams throttle body (whats the part number for it)

[®usty]

bump

any update on this?