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Thread: 3SGE differences?

  1. #1
    Forum Member Grease Monkey
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    Default 3SGE differences?

    I've looked, I've searched, and I've asked elsewhere and gotten FA for my trouble , so I thought I would come here and ask people who generally point me in the right direction.

    What are the Major differences between the 3SGE and the 3SGE Beams?

    I know beams has VVTi and the compression ratio is higher but mechanically speaking are those the only differences?

    The reason I ask is next season I plan on building a track car, the class requirements are
    1> Engine must be made by the Chassis MFR. I'm going to be building up a 77 Celica so it must be toyota
    2> Engine must have a capacity of < 2200cc
    3> Engine must be N/A

    looking at toyota engines that fit these requirements we get the 3SGE Beams and the 1/2 ZZ as the top performers, I've decided to go the 3SGE route and started researching a bit online, then I stumble across this

    3SG (SXE 10)
    HIGH COMP 2200 PISTON KIT

    3SG (SXE10)
    SPORTS INJECTION KIT Under development

    Found at http://www.toda-racing.jp


    With those and a good Cam setup would I be able to build a good race 3SGE with a Non Beams 3SGE?
    I dont know that the VVTi is going to make that huge of a difference esp. if i go with some hotter cams.
    The advantage of starting with a non Beams is the inital cost of the engine.
    Would standard 3SGE parts (Valves, springs, ect.) fit on a Beams engine ?
    RA65 SCCA Car (looking for a decent swap)
    NCP61 Daily Driver (pondering the practicalities of making it a SCP61)

  2. #2
    Experience shows I'm no Chief Engine Builder Roundy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    PM celica RA45, he has a built Beams 3S for his race car!

    with the vvti i am fairly confident you should get the same peak hp (if u set it up for that), but the vvti will improve the area under the curve, hence making it a bit faster.
    "If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?"
    My ST185 with 278awkw (2.2L is running...)
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  3. #3
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    I have been "toying" with the idea of a RAV 4 motor i think they are 3S and VVTi, this might be a good option i wanted to put one in a RA40 for the street as i race a RA40 with a 3SGTE i have plenty of parts and could build one quite cheap. just be carefull with oil delivery caus every one that RWD's 3S's have oil problems caus the motor is on a 20 degree lean in FWD config but i ST185 MR2 motors dont seem to have this problem as they are not on so much of a lean from factory... Food for thought.
    S.M.R
    There is a method in the madness

  4. #4
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    check my web-site. lots of 3S info/pics. www.roadandtrack.net.au

  5. #5
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic Dimitri's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    there are 5 versions of 3sge.

    gen 1s not really worth considering.

    gen 2 and 3 are good engines, gen 2s are a little easier to convert to rwd (they only came out in mid engine and fwd/4wd cars) for na and big cams ect gen 3s have the advantage of shim under the buckets stock.

    gen 4s are VVTi on one cam and are from fwd cars only also.

    gen 5 beams 3sge's are rwd only (to my knowlege) and are dual vvti. it isnt just the varying cam timing thats a bonus. the later and newer the head the better the port design, along with alot of other things inside the engine too. being rwd standard is also an advantage to you, offseting the extra cost somewhat because you wont be fooling around converting the engine to run rwd.

    depends on your budget i guess but if youre serious the beams makes alot of sense. to even get the non VVT engines upto the standard output of the beams will be some work.

    fitting is another thing to consider. for a race car you should be able to make it work, but be warned the engine is EXTREMELY tall. the sump is also offset forward quite a bit, making it a little bit of a trick to get the engine far enough bar to fit behind the sway bar (this is what we found in the ae86 we put one into anyway).

    ours made 128kw at the wheels, completely stock save for the intake manifold, which was only modified so the engine could fit in the car.

    if you do decide to go beams i think youll find adaptronic is the cheapest ecu available that can control the cams.

    as far as the stroker kit, i think youll find it will fit in almost any 3s? probably, but youll definately get varying compression ratios due to differant combustion chamber volumes atleast.

  6. #6
    doctor ed Conversion King ed's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    what versions are there of the 3sgte?

    caldina gen 4 with dual vvti ??
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  7. #7
    The Evil Director Backyard Mechanic jfallen's Avatar
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    Talking Re: 3SGE differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri
    gen 1s not really worth considering.
    Oh with a decient budget this would be my pic. (or a gen II 3SGTE converted to NA)

    You could fit a bus sideways through those inlet ports, (go the oldschool TVIS big ports) crank some 1ZZFE solid lifters in and away you go.

    in real terms though for a more respectiable budget the Black Top BEAMS is probably the way to go.

    TRD do a 270PS kit for them.

    yeah, check it http://trdparts.jp/english/parts_engine-3s-ge.html

    Jordan
    Past rides: 86 Hilux, 3x ke55 rollas's (2coupes,) 5th Gen GT4 x2, RA28, TA22 x3, KE10, P610 datto, RT40 corona x3, RT132, MX13

    Currrent: , CA-A22 Celica living life as a Sports Sedan, 2000model ST215W Caldina GT-T manual, RT40 corona.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic Dimitri's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    that is hot shit.

    p.s re gen 1. i dont know about the biggest port possible being the best thing.. and also the cam buckets on a gen 1 are the same size as a 4ag.. i.e not really big enough for really big cams.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    i know this is an old thread but i really need some help. As we all know the 3SGTE is a hard engine to find but there are 3sge's everywere (in S.A anyway) now the problem i have is that spun a main baring and mabey more damage on the weekend, i need to rebuild my motor in 4 weeks (before the next race) but im looking for another motor. My question is how simmilar are the turbo and non turbo 3S MR2 motors. Ie could i buy a non turbo MR2 long motor and put all my manifolds injectors loom etc on the non turbo SW20 motor?
    S.M.R
    There is a method in the madness

  10. #10
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    or anyone have a low km 3SGTE for sale????
    S.M.R
    There is a method in the madness

  11. #11
    Junior Member Conversion King Jorrs's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    theres always tonnes of 3sgtes for sale at the importers !
    3sgtes i find are very very common these days.
    What is autosalon? Sounds kinda homo.
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  12. #12
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorrs
    theres always tonnes of 3sgtes for sale at the importers !
    3sgtes i find are very very common these days.
    Not in S.A and all importers sell half cuts and dont want to seperate. I just need a long motor, + if i can use non turbo motors i can get them cheap as!
    S.M.R
    There is a method in the madness

  13. #13
    serial biochemist Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by strat
    ... there are 3sge's everywere (in S.A anyway)

    what generation are you talking about??? I have yet to see anything after gen 1 in a 3sge in SA and I was looking pretty seriously about 6months ago. Adelaide Jap usually have plenty of 3SGTEs in or out of half-cuts
    your rep rating is not a reflection of your worth to the community

    Quote Originally Posted by H1TMAN
    wtf? I want to do track racing, and f#@k you...
    that's very flattering but no thanks.

  14. #14
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by mtp_69_i
    what generation are you talking about??? I have yet to see anything after gen 1 in a 3sge in SA and I was looking pretty seriously about 6months ago. Adelaide Jap usually have plenty of 3SGTEs in or out of half-cuts
    Rang about 6 shops today, looking for a gen2 MR2 SW20. There are three non turbo motors i have found and no turbo, found 2 in queensland but they are half cuts and havent rang em yet to see if they will seperate. All i want to know is if i can use the bottom end out of another 3S motor and what is different between the non turbo and turbo motor i this what this thread is all about.
    S.M.R
    There is a method in the madness

  15. #15
    Junior Member Backyard Mechanic strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 3SGE differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by mtp_69_i
    what generation are you talking about??? I have yet to see anything after gen 1 in a 3sge in SA and I was looking pretty seriously about 6months ago. Adelaide Jap usually have plenty of 3SGTEs in or out of half-cuts
    Rang about 6 shops today, looking for a gen2 MR2 SW20. There are three non turbo motors i have found and no turbo, found 2 in queensland but they are half cuts and havent rang em yet to see if they will seperate. All i want to know is if i can use the bottom end out of another 3S motor and what is different between the non turbo and turbo motor i this what this thread is all about.
    S.M.R
    There is a method in the madness

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