2ZZ-AW11 (and other silly swaps)

[mullett]

Been thinking alot recently about light, powerful motors for my MR2 (which just feels...well, back-heavy), and the 2ZZ option was mentioned the other day. How hard would this be to adapt in there? And does anyone know what the going rate is (if you can find one?)

How about a MIVEC V6?

RM.

[Vios-GT_07]

mivev V6 is impossible in the back of the MR2 without drastic chassis and shell modifications.

2ZZ won't exactly fit coz
1. gearbox
2. drive-shafts
3. crossmber
4. engine mounts would be way off..

just my 0.02 cents though.. my dream AW11 had a bigport with quads and cams

[Lachie]

Not eactly the same thing, but I've been wondering about a 2ZZ in place of a 4A in my corolla since I found out they both have C series gearboxes. But after talking to my friend at toyota found out that it wouldn't bolt up (plus a 2zz is about 15g's to put in a 1zz corolla, so i can't imagine it would be cheap)

As for putting it in an AW11, use the C60 gearbox, customs mounts (like in any conversion), and he nly thing that would be really difficult would be the driveshafts

Vios-GT_07: As for the Mivec V6, are you just assuming it wouldn't fit, or ahve you taken measurments - they fit in the foront of lancers (probably bigger then the mr2 bay but still quite small)

[Vios-GT_07]

Vios-GT_07: As for the Mivec V6, are you just assuming it wouldn't fit, or ahve you taken measurments - they fit in the foront of lancers (probably bigger then the mr2 bay but still quite small)

i did measure a Lancer and FTo's engine bay, and there is no way that the 6A12 would simply fit into the Lancer. Fair bit of fabrication is needed. Firewall was just barely fit + the front end had to be cut out and the radiator bar extended, even so it just made enough room to fit (when the engine tilts forward there's something like a few inches before the engine touches something)

That said, the AW11 has comfy room for the 4A-GE to sit and the 6A-12 is really double the length, (think narrow angle V6). I've had trouble in doing an engine swap for an AW11 as it is.. there just isn't much room to move around. maybe If you could cut into the boot? coz the 6A12 longer both length and width wise.

Compare the 6A-12 and gearbox with that of the 4A-GE + gearbox (for the AW11) and u'll see a very big difference in size. that, coupled with the engine bay of the AW11 which cannot really be modifid for more length.. (unless u take up the boot too) and yea i've made a few rough measurements for something similar but it was so off that it seemed impossible. No i didn't keep the figures.. was about 2 years back.

FIXED!!

[Hibba]

http://www.v8mr2.com/

Thats what you need for the Ultimate mr2

[mullett]

I've heard of 2ZZ packages going for between 2.5k and 7k, and I've since learnt that Merridan Motorsport have one in their AW11. Sooo..it's doable! It'd be a damn fine drive, too :)

How about some other engines?

B16/B18
Mivec V6
Hyabusa motor (I think the box would smash with the weight...)

Keep em coming guys!

Cheers, RM.

[mullett]

http://www.v8mr2.com/

Thats what you need for the Ultimate mr2

Trying to get weight OUT! :P

RM.

[Vios-GT_07]

then again if you take up the boot space, does it become RR instead of MR layout?

[Vios-GT_07]

yeap i think that most L4 engine would fit into an AW11... wouldn't mind either the B18 or 2ZZ in it.. high-revving street go-kart !!

1UZ-FE ??

[mullett]

Hahah...yeah. Like a damn 911 :P Hmm. I think a straight 4 is the answer, as the object is to cut weight, and move it forward...

RM.

[Hen]

Yes, speak to Meridian Motorsport about it. I think they even advertise a 2ZZ into AW11 as a conversion they can do.

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

1mz-fe aw11 would be cool... seen the 3vz done. also an F20C aw11 would be damned interesting.

[MR22ZZ]

2ZZ into an AW11 would be awesome. If you do it, I wish you all the best :)

[Lachie]

Vios-GT_07: I think your tape measure is broken mate or it got bigger when you measured the lancer bay.

[Vios-GT_07]

Vios-GT_07: I think your tape measure is broken mate or it got bigger when you measured the lancer bay.


nope i'll stand by what we've measured and deduced.. if u notice closely in the pic the gap between engine and radiator is where we've had problems.. plus i wouldn't say it's a fair comparison coz we measured against a 96 lancer coupe and mirage (which are really almost the same thing) and this is a newer model .

that said, it's a very tight fit and i'm surprised he got the aircon in there, and also the aircon's pipe running across like that.. is a good idea we never thought of.

[3sgte]

I haven't seen this link posted yet:
http://www.v6mr2.com/examples.html

It even looks like someone stuffed a 5VZ in a MK II !

1MZ MK I link:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/527869

[Stefan]

I think you really want to go here: http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/

Once you register to the forums, you can download tech docs of engine swaps & read the member's buildup threads.

[c2888]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2255550

pics of an american swap

[Vios-GT_07]

that was classic.. a 2ZZ in an AW11

but still....

how did the engine sit in the car? crossmember?

wasn't very detailed eh..

[mullett]

nope, no crossmember. East-west engine. So you'd just have to make the mounts fit up, I guess by welding new ones...

RM.

[Vios-GT_07]

nope, no crossmember. East-west engine. So you'd just have to make the mounts fit up, I guess by welding new ones...

RM.

hm.. fair enough... but isn't there a mount where the gearbox sits on? a straight bar like the ones in FWD cars, which hold a mount on the g/box itself.. sorry if i'm wrong but i'm a noob and can't picture the under-carriage in this sense..

thanks for the info

[Stefan]

How about.... a 4a-gze in your AW11?

:P

[Vios-GT_07]

How about.... a 4a-gze in your AW11?

:P

umm..... right.....

i got neg repped... crap.. i did say sorry if i was wrong and i did say i am a noob.. and yea it's not a crossmember i just can't remember what that stupid bar is called.. it runs north to south, bolts up under the car on g/box side and supports the g/box.. and yea that description wasn't very detailed but i'd really like to know how it was done in just a tiny bit more detail..

[3sgte]

umm..... right.....

i got neg repped... crap.. i did say sorry if i was wrong and i did say i am a noob.. and yea it's not a crossmember i just can't remember what that stupid bar is called..

And retaliating with a negative rep back isn't cool.

Your first post in the thread was "

2ZZ won't exactly fit coz
1. gearbox
2. drive-shafts
3. crossmber
4. engine mounts would be way off..


If you are a noob, you shouldn't be telling people something isn't possible, especially if you don't know the car.

Next thing is complaining about a guy who posts 5 pages of pics of a swap he did. Not enough info? I would have liked more too, but I appreciate what he posted, and I appreciate c2888 finding it.

c2888 got positive rep for adding to the thread.

Apologies to all for airing the laundry.

[CrUZida]

While the UZW11 would be a dream, I think an MZW11 would be the swap of my choice.

'Compact', 'light', and plenty of low down grunt to move the wee little car around very nicely.

[deviant]

I've heard of 2ZZ packages going for between 2.5k and 7k, and I've since learnt that Merridan Motorsport have one in their AW11. Sooo..it's doable! It'd be a damn fine drive, too :)

How about some other engines?

B16/B18
Mivec V6
Hyabusa motor (I think the box would smash with the weight...)

Keep em coming guys!

Cheers, RM.

A haybusa engine would be an awesome conversion but you would need to lose a serious amount of weight to make it work effectively. Ive been in a few bike engined kit cars and performance is literally breathtaking but those cars weighed in between 400-500KG with fluids.

Look at www.zcars.org.uk these guys specialise in bike engined cars and you can see that even with the Elise kit they are having to lose alot of weight!! I had a go in their R1 powered mini and its an absolute riot!

[adamaw11]

How about.... a 4a-gze in your AW11?

:P
hehehe, as he already said, he wants to REMOVE rear-end weight not add it in, hehehe

Anyone know the actual weight difference between the 2zz and the average na 4age?
Would really be a good combination overall, its just a shame about the potential cost of it all.

My goal is to get performance on par with the 2zz corollas / celicas with a near stock blacktop 20v. Meaning just into the 14s, at about 150kmh trap speed.
With the right mods, I reckon you can pretty much have 2zz-like performance with an A series engine in a straight line, but we just don't how much the lighter engine will improve balance.


How 'bout a 3RZFE? way to heavy I'd guess, if only they were and alloy block.
Whats the biggest capacity alloy block 4 cylinder you can think of?

[JustCallMeOrlando]

2.4l Camry donk?

[Vios-GT_07]

ok here's what i gather

he's got Celica halfshafts, but still using MR2 N/A drive shafts
Still using the C50 gearbox (with a custom bellhousing?) i'd have thought would be the 2ZZ gearbox or from the MR2 Spyder
Issues with a transaxle mount and selectors.
Has a special mount so the engine sits up
aside from the battery being relocated to the boot it's pretty much done..
still unsure of a few things... but was very interesting!! :)

i'd have never thought of that... they're good engines 190hp and 6 speed box, strangely being in the corolla it's a bit of a letdown i'm not sure why. i'd take the 4A-GE over it anyday, but also because i've only ever driven it once. Blacktop 20V into the MR2 would ge sweet!! (with cams and quads of course)

[deviant]

How about a N***an Pulsar GTI-R engine? People stick them in FWD Pulsars all the time so im pretty sure you could adapt it to go in a mid engined car.
250BHP and quad throttle bodies as standard. gotta be a laugh in an AW11!!

[MR22ZZ]

the 4A-GE doesn't have the torque/power to pull the E12 series Corollas effectively (yes less torque stock then the 1ZZ and 2ZZ). I suggest you go back to the 2ZZ car and drive it again properly. They are not an engine you can get a real feel of in one drive. It took me a couple of months to get used to the feel of the engine/gear package.

I do not understand why you would have the C50 gearbox over the C60/64 though. That is just silly. You will fall out or the powerband even more so then you already do... unless you kow how to drive it properly ;)

The gear ratios are on a fine edge and you need to be slick and precise for it to work. Using the C50 gearbox would detract from the enjoyment sooo much it's not funny. You will just end up frustrated with it.

[MR22ZZ]

How about a N***an Pulsar GTI-R engine? People stick them in FWD Pulsars all the time so im pretty sure you could adapt it to go in a mid engined car.
250BHP and quad throttle bodies as standard. gotta be a laugh in an AW11!!
Why not go all out and put in a Cosworth Duratec engine then?

[4agte]

that was classic.. a 2ZZ in an AW11

but still....

how did the engine sit in the car? crossmember?

wasn't very detailed eh..
crossmember......????? no such need for one in an aw11 :D

u sure youve done a conversion into an aw11 b4?

and there is no bar the monts are welded directly to the chassis

[deviant]

Why not go all out and put in a Cosworth Duratec engine then?

Mmmm Cosworth goodness. One of my friends in England has a 3 door Sierra Cosworth thats pushing around 380BHP.

I would choose the SR20DET though because they are readily available here and there is an abundance of tuning parts. There is zero support (that i can find) in Australia for Cosworth engines.

How about getting the very latest Honda 2 litre V-Tec and fitting one of the off the shelf supercharger kits and ending up with 300BHP+ (like the Ariel Atom 300). Probably heading into the realms of needing very very deep pockets but its going to make the ultimate trackday weapon.

[3sgte]

Still using the C50 gearbox (with a custom bellhousing?) i'd have thought would be the 2ZZ gearbox or

He isn't using the C50.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2255550/2

Look at the pictures and read the text.

Rear transaxle body mount from 4AGE's C50

(my emphasis)

The photos clearly show the old MR2 mounts on the new FF celica transaxle.

One thing not shown is how the shift cables are hooked up. A potential solution is mentioned, but there is no evidence of follow through. I would imagine dragging the shift cables round to the backside of the transaxle to be quite a challenge due to inadequate (?) length. The solution he proposes would avoid that, but I can't say if the MR2 select mechanism (extending through the "front" of the translaxle) would work in the 6 speed box.

photo link (http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=EEEECC&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/2255000-2255999/2255550_29_full.jpg)

Blue_Stivo nails it perfectly, the 2ZZ would be out of its element with the ratios of the 5 speed.

[MR22ZZ]

Mmmm Cosworth goodness. One of my friends in England has a 3 door Sierra Cosworth thats pushing around 380BHP.

I would choose the SR20DET though because they are readily available here and there is an abundance of tuning parts. There is zero support (that i can find) in Australia for Cosworth engines.

Have a talk to Meridian Motorsport in Melboure re cosworth engines ;)

and 2ZZ engines too for that matter...

the Duratec is based on the Mazda 2.3L engine used in the 6 and the SP23. It's the new engine use in this years formula Atlantic series in America raplacing the 4A-GE after 20 odd years.

[Vios-GT_07]

He isn't using the C50.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2255550/2

Look at the pictures and read the text.

(my emphasis)



sorry my bad.. C50 transaxle mounts + n/a MR2 drive-shafts.. i think i'll have another look at the AW11.. must've missed something coz i still can't get the idea of how it'd fit .. the Celica has a very different engine-bay from memory.. but the link shows it's fairly simple with the only "complication" being the mount position and shift selectors. :confused:

Blue_Stivo - and yea i'd say a fair bit of skill, speed and knowledge of the package to make it work efficiently, just that one drive isn't sufficient to learn it and one drive alone doesn't do it justice. It did put me off because of its first impression but given a chance i'd definitely take it up!

[buck naked]

Looking at the custom work involved for the AW11, a 2ZZ swap into ZZW30 model seems more appealing. 960kg kerb weight in street trim and huge availibility of new parts (hard tops ftw).

Stroke the engine out to 1.93 litres, head and cam work, a Motec computer running the standard 6 speed sequential gearbox. C-One close ratio gear set. Maybe swap the stock LSD for something more agressive. Alternately, source a manual import model and go with a PowerFC to save some cash.

Build a Lotus-eating Japanese monster =)

[mullett]

Absolutely, I love the new MR2. But we got saddled with a *dammit* auto-only (ok, so it's got a wank 'sequential' shifter, but we all know how much that's worth), even the yanks got the manual. 2ZZ would be awesome...now I'm thinking all over again...

RM.

[MR22ZZ]

Looking at the custom work involved for the AW11, a 2ZZ swap into ZZW30 model seems more appealing. 960kg kerb weight in street trim and huge availibility of new parts (hard tops ftw).

several of those have been built very sucessfully in the US. There is currently one in constustion in Sydney that will look awesome when complete. They have resprayed the entire chassis Cobolt Blue as well as detailed engine components to match. Will be an awesome showcar when complete :D

[nick.parker]

Absolutely, I love the new MR2. But we got saddled with a *dammit* auto-only (ok, so it's got a wank 'sequential' shifter, but we all know how much that's worth), even the yanks got the manual. 2ZZ would be awesome...now I'm thinking all over again...

Tell me about it! It put a big dent in my apprecaition of the MRS (not my wife!). Still maybe on the bright side, I bet there's several kg of solenoids in the rear that would save weight if removed (i.e convert to a proper manual). I read that Toyota used the 1ZZ in the MR2 because it resulted in a car with better drivability, i.e. torquier at lower revs. But I have to admit a 2ZZ would seem like a logical idea for a factory hot-up MR2.

On one of the BMI (Best Motoring International) DVDs that I *ahem* previewed on the internet "NA battles at 10,000rpm" they race a 2ZZ MRS. Unfortunately it came last, but still it was cool.

Nick.