Hiace upgrade?

[Nosforatu]

Hi am just starting an engine swap for my 85 hiace 3sfe in 3y out i know you will all say do a 3sge insted but ultimate power is not the issue here (would be nice though). I have bought a 93 carine 2.0executive for £85 and 3sge engines are selling for £200 upwards and cost is, an issue. I have a 5 sped manual box from alight ace to replace the 4 speed in my van so i'm hoping i have pretty much all i need for the swap. I know the sump is the wrong way round so will need attension (dry sump a possibility, looking into doing it cheeply at the mo). The bell housing on the 3y bolts to the 3s block, i checked out other peoples conversions on this site, but the 5 sped came off a 2ct diesel do not know if this the same?. For the wiring i have a potential issue as the speedo in the carena is electronic and has something to do with the fuel injection, so some way of fitting the sensor to the new box in order. Any help greatfully recieved as this is my first major project. will post pics as i go when i can figure out how to do it. Nos:)

[Hen]

I have it on good authority that the C series engine is a diesel version of the S series. So a bellhousing designed to fit a 2C-T will fit a 3S-FE.

You should be ok without the speed sensor (though 93 is getting a little late), on earlier ECUs the engine runs fine with it disconnected. And using a manual, not an auto box will eliminate the chance of this causing shifting problems.

Good luck.
Hen

[Nosforatu]

popped in to my local motorfactors and had a chat and a look through there clutch book and found some interesting info: the 3sfe clutch outer plate is the same size as the 3y, the friction plate on the 3s is 225mm the 3y is 215mm, the spline on the 3s is 20 on the 3y it's 21, the od on the 3s is27.7 the 3y 28.8, the id is 3s 24.1 3y 25.4. So it looks like i can use the friction plate from the 3y to match the gearbox with the backing plate from the 3s. have to get the engine out (when it stops raining) and measure from the belhousing face to the release bearing on both engines to see wether i need to change it/ make a spacer or a new bearing.

[Nosforatu]

Managed to get the engine out yesterday,It looks pretty tall obout 31" which is the same hight as the engine cover to the ground in the van. So the dry sump idea better pay off, any one got any ideas? Has anyone modified the injection manifold with any success, there is a guy in sweden who has done it but i don't speek swedish. Any ideas/ help to lower the overall hight of the engine much appriciated.

[Hen]

I speak Danish (very similar to Swedish) so send me a link to the info and I may be able to help translate.

However I think a dry sump wont be worth the money spent. I think they are very expensive. Trimming down the height with a custom cam cover and custom inlet sound like a better idea.

Hen

[Nosforatu]

Hi Hen Thanks for the reply The link is http://213.115.181.72/~toyota/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20121&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=3sfe&start=0.
i forgot to thank u for the info on the other reply.
Here are a couple of pics one of the inlet side of the 3s it's long and stands obout 150mm above the head. one of the gearbox i'm using and one of my scabby van.Nos

[johnny blade]

Managed to get the engine out yesterday,It looks pretty tall obout 31" which is the same hight as the engine cover to the ground in the van. So the dry sump idea better pay off, any one got any ideas? Has anyone modified the injection manifold with any success, there is a guy in sweden who has done it but i don't speek swedish. Any ideas/ help to lower the overall hight of the engine much appriciated.

Here I am! ;)

I just cut the manifold and welded it together upsidedown, it works fine.
I realised that i hade to lower the subframe almoste 1 inch because of the height of the 3S.
http://www.polkatulk.se/PICT0213.JPG

[Nosforatu]

Thanks for that Johny. I have to modifiy the sump as it seems to be the wrong way round and will foul on the crossmember. Iam hoping to drop the engine hight this way. May have to do the intake manifold as well. here are a couple of pics, arrows point to the front of the engine.

[johnny blade]

Ok, my 3Y-sump was in the front.
Why don't you just cut the crossmember and rebuilt it to clear the 3S-sump?

I did a little mod to mine.
http://tcs.teamymse.net/bildgalleri/albums/userpics/10036/motorbalk%20svetsad.JPG

[Nosforatu]

Pulled the gearbox off yesterday, and have been looking at the clutch/ gearbox splines. The good newsis that:) the 2c clutch bolts straigth onto the 3s flywheel. The bad news is that the 2c flywheel is 10mm thicker than the 3s, so there is a 10mm difference in length from the frontface of the gearbox to the release bearing.:confused:

So a) I find a 10mm thicker release bearing.
b) use the flywheel from the 2c, bit heavy as its for a diesel
c) make a spacer, but may run out of sline on the input shaft
d) find a different bellhousing

There are 2 sensors on the gearbox I think one is for the reversing light and the other is for the speed see pics I Think I have Them labled corectly, Also any ideas how the "speed" sensor comes out? I have unsrewed the screws and the bolt but it does'nt seem to move.

The end of the input shaft is also a different design should be a case of just changing the bearings in the flywheel to suit. hoping to get the gearbox trial mated to the motor today.

As normal any help/addvise much appriciated. Nos

[Nosforatu]

Got the gearbox trial fitted today :) The top part of the bellhousing bolted straight up. The bottom did'nt:( . But luckily the 2 support plates from the c engine that i pulled the gearbox off fitted straight onto the engine in the place of the 3s bottom piece (see pics for the two pieces to relace the 3s one piece) The bolt holes are already tapped as well:) .

Now all i have to do is sort the clutch and starter motor. If i fit the flywheel from the 2c this will sort both probs, But it's heavy could lighten. Anyone Got Any Pics Of A Lightened Flywheel. Also the starter motor 2c, cog that engauges the ring gear is smaller ( less teeth) than the 3s, so it will turn the engine over slower may be a problem?:confused:

[BrianRA23]

If you have the starter and cog from the 3S it is a quick process to slide back the end, remove the circlip and swap it with the 2C starter cog - it should all match up then. If you don't change you will have a problem

[Nosforatu]

Thanks for the tip Brian i'll have a look @ that before wor+
k tomorow. That will sort one prob the other is the diference in flywheel thickness. If i use the starter fron the 2c which engauges on a flywheel 10mm thicker will it still work on a flywheel which is thinner?
I will check the ring gear on both flywheels if it's the same and the 2c flywheel fits the 3s then a lightened 2c flywheel with the 2c starter with the 3s end gear could be the way to go.
I like the idea of using the 2c flywheel so i don't have a problem with the clutch actuation, But time will tell
Thanks to all for help so far (don't stop as i'm sure i'll need more).
When the engines finaly in and running...... Superchargers keep running through my mind:cool: :D
Nos

[Nosforatu]

Here are a couple of pics of the two flywheels the top one is the 3s the bottom is the 2c. After looking at the ring gear they are different the 2c has less teeth than the 3s (hav'nt Counted) This ties up with less teeth on the styarter motor. So if the startermotor To Ring gear ratio is the same or thereabouts turnover speed should not be a problem.

Lightening the flywheel i'm going to take to work today and see if i can take some wieght of off the 2c from the middle boss and the outer lip. To make it something more like the 3s.

The next thing is the statermotor (check pic) has to moumt behind the exhaust but there are two water pipes to reroute not to much of a prob, But how will the sarter cope next to that much heat? could make stainless heatshield if there is space to fit it.

[Nosforatu]

Here is the 2c flywheel lightened as much as i thought safe It wieghed 13.87Kg before lightening and 10.6 after sounds good exept that the 3s only wieghs 7.5Kg also don't know how it's effected the balance have to check it out at work when i have the time, and have a think about the wieght issue any ideas? feel free to shout. Nos

[Nosforatu]

Here are some pics of the speedo drive converting the electronic drive from the fwd to fit in the manual drive on the rwd gearbox. Had to drill the drive out of the rwd as it was a bit corroded in. Then just had to take the shaft out and shorten it put a slot in the other side, as it was only slotted on one side:confused: Then put another groove in for the retaining clip, all done in the garage with an angle grinder and a vice. I had to turn up a sleeve to take the fwd drive up to 25.0mm to fit the rwd box. So now I should have a working electronic speedo drive for the rwd as it uses the shaft from the rwd box i'm hoping it will read the correct speed:D

hopefully the pics will give a fairly good idea of the work done the one with the flange is the electronic one, also the small cog.

[Nosforatu]

Just pulled the gearbox out of the van this means that i can't use it for colecting any more parts.:(

On the plus side i have compared the bellhousings (see pics) 3y at the top this means that the starter motor will sit on the side away from the exhaust:) as it didn't fit under the standard exhaust, (does anyone know if the 3sge/gte exhaust manifold has the same spacing and stud arraingement?)The 3y bolts up exept for one hole (see pic).so some filing and maybe a bit of tig needed:rolleyes:

I have desided to make a flywheel from scratch useing the 2c for dimensions,the billet of aluminium is on order so that will hopefully sort out my probs:D

[johnny blade]

The exhaust manifold will fit (3S-GE/GTE gen 1 and 2 not 3) but not the inlet manifold.

Here's another pic of S vs Y bolt holes.
http://tcs.teamymse.net/bildgalleri/albums/userpics/10036/3av4passar.JPG

[Nosforatu]

Thanks for the info Jonny, have the van blocked up at the minute,loosened off the bolts for the engine cross member,modified the bell housing bolt hole this am, Should have gotten it built up with weld first, but the local welder couldn't do it till monday at the earliest and i'm not that patient.

[Nosforatu]

Just got myself a pair of hilux 4pot calipers to throw in the mix, ebay it's a wonderfull thing.
I don't know what model they come off anyone know?:confused:

Should this thread be here or in members rides if i start on sideline projects?

Still here are the pics.

Hopefully get the engine dropped out of the van before work today( the wife and kids keep taking up my time)

[Nosforatu]

Right then the engine is now out of the van. Just having lunch before work. I didn't have to drop the x-member, but my lifting set up wasn't the best but it worked.Heres the pics.

Now i can trial fit the 3s and sort out sump & inlet etc. hopefully some more tech stuff next time.
Cheers all Nos:) :D

[Nosforatu]

I had a bit of a look at the flywheels and clutches this am. The 3y fly' is only a 6 bolt so will not fit also the clutch backing plate bolt pcd is bigger than the 3s & 2c and is taller:(
so a bit of a measure of fly's etc.

The 3s from face to the block is 34.0mm
the 3y " 49.0mm
2c " 47.5mm

the 3y clutch friction plate Diameter is the same as the 3s 225.0mm:) so the 3s back with the 3y friction are what i will be using.
The difference in hight of the 2 backs turned out not to be a problem as a quick measure from the face to the fingers are bothe the same 43.0mm:D .

So all i have to do (lol) is take to work take some acurate measurements and make my billet fly.:eek:

starting to get the hang of photoshop for sizing the pics:)

[Nosforatu]

I have been busy with work and family comitments so the vans been put on the back burner :( . But the billet of 6082 T6 has turned up 2 weeks later than promised but it's here so i can now get on with making the flywheel:) . Other than that it's been cleaning and pianting. Have booked some holiday from work so hoping to get a lot more done.

[Nosforatu]

Hi all it's been a while ,have finally found some time to get on with the van,Here are some pics from sunday putting the engine in, sounds easy and if i had to do it again will be quicker and easyer next time. Once you try all the combinations that don't work your left with the one that does so dont' try:leavin the inlet manifold on or dropping the engine in from the top......Etc.Etc.

Still have to fab some engine mounts.
Mod the sump (easy'r to see what needs doing now it's in place)
mod the inlet/mod the bodie (not sure which till i have another look)
wiring
fuel lines / tank

Thinking of making a spacer for the inlet so that i can turn it upside down or may have to cut and weld like jonny

[bmxer54]

those calipers look like ln106 hilux calipers just got a pair for myself :)

[Nosforatu]

i'm still trying to find a supplier of new dust and other seals at the mo motorfactors only want to do exchange or out right whole calipers. Hope you have more luck in Oz than here in the uk.Nos

[Nosforatu]

Have been trying to align the engine to get it square and straight and level. The bottom face of the engine where the sump fits does'n sit level when the engine is upright in the engine bay, I'm presuming this is because the engine is tilted back in the carina. This is a pain in the arse as my van is not level where it's parked so trying to get every thing right is tricky with no real datum to work from.

as you can see in the pic the right side (veiwed from the rear) is higher than the left.

[Nosforatu]

Here's a pic of my almost finished flywheel:) . Waiting for material to make the friction face at the minute supposed to be here this week:rolleyes:

The main body is 6082 T6 Aluminiun
Countersunk cap heads are HTS
Dowles to make today at work probably S32760 St/St
The friction face will be 1050 High carbon steel

The ring gear is the original Toyota which will be shrunk on then Dutch Keyed just to make sure that it doesn't spin.

[Nosforatu]

It's been a while but here is the first engine mount, the second is nearly done.
I made the plates to fit existing threaded bosses on the engine block where the plate sits parralel to the boss it is just drilled through and bolted, where the boss was at a different angle i drilled the plate 16mm at the same angle (well close then, filed) and made up some bosses bolted the plate to the engine put the bosses int the 16mm holes and bolted them in place then tacked them before taking out and welding.
The plate is 1/4" for the engine and the plate that sits on the rubber part of the original mount, the box is 5mm with a slot drilled in it to accsess the nut that bolts the two parts together (see pics ).
In hind sight it may have been better to mount the plates on different bosses and cut the mounting posts off of the cross member and re position them?

[horse]

some great work there Nosforatu. good to see some ingenuity getting that 3s-fe into your hiace :) is that hiace fully fitted with benches and the lot for camping :D ?

not sure if you are familiar with the 3s-fe (and most 3s motors in general) but they sit on an incline backwards as the main oil galleries are on the inlet side. thus having the angle assists in the return of oil in the head. there have been instances where standing a 3s motor upright (no inlet side lean) has caused oil starvation issues, but for your purpose it might be ok, however if possible, maybe look into having the sump capacity increased just to err on the safe side.

Cheers :)

[Nosforatu]

Thanks for that, The only way i could get the 3s to tilt that way was to find a different bellhousing or fab a gearbox mount which would tip that as well, then reajust the gear linkages. Several other conversions mainly 3sge run upright (so hoping this will be ok) but will take your advise and increase the sump capasity when i mod it. Thinking of putting in swinging baffles in the sump to allow the oil to flow to the pickup and stop it spilling away on hills and corners, (someone else has done something simular, but i can't remember who)
As for the intirior it was originaly a Dormobile conversion from new but over the years has been butchered buy previous owners so it has been partialy gutted at the minute,like a lot of things it's waiting for me to get round to fixing up, have cooker and fridge waiting to fit along with stereo and amp. I'm looking forward to the day i can just get in and drive it, go surfing and sleep in it with family and/or friends.

[horse]

sounds like a cool car mate, would be the best for a trip out anywhere :)

swinging sump baffles would do the job greatly, takai on his IPRA race car over here has side baffles. check out the following links :)

http://toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5074
http://toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11507

keep up the good work mate

[Nosforatu]

Heres some more stuff i've finished machining the flywheel just got to shrink on the ring gear and fit the dowels.
started on the sump had to cut the front off to clear the crossmember so i'm building the back up and also moving the oil level sensor not sure if this is going to be enough was goint to do it differently with swinging gate baffles but running out of room unless i go quite a bit deeper before going wider then i will have to completely change the oil pickup and the dipstick which at the min both still fit in there original places. my welding isn't pretty need more skill!
Any ideas welcome.
check the pics

[johnny blade]

Here's my 3S/3Y-sump. ;)
http://tcs.teamymse.net/bildgalleri/albums/userpics/10036/lortsvetsat%20tr%E5g.JPG

http://tcs.teamymse.net/bildgalleri/albums/userpics/10036/lostsvetsat%20tr%E5g2.JPG

[Nosforatu]

very tidy i may make a new sump from scratch for mine and try to get more capacity , but this one will do for now.
Thanks for the input Johnny.
Cheers Nos

[Nosforatu]

have been loolking at differnt manifolds and what to do with mine. found this http://www.teglerizer.com/fi/GT6_manifold/ms_gt6_manifold_completed.html#fullassembly
and am thinking of using my plenum and fabricating some new tubes to fit from it to the cylinder head.
the thing that i keep wondering is about the length of the manifold from the little i've read short manifolds seem to be better for peek power ( at higher revs) and longer manifolds are better for more torque.

Does anyone know of some formular for working out the optimum lenght for a given Hp & torque @ given revs?

should i just replicate the original length but try and fit it in the space available, but this could lead to a complicated manifold with to many bends for good flow.

[Nosforatu]

here are some pics of my modified oil pickup pipe and sump which are now fitted. this conversion is taking forever this is the trouble with not having much spare time.

still have:
fuel tank/pump
wiring
injection manifold
flywheel & clutch
to do before the vans drivable then i can start on alllllll the other jobs on the van.

[Nosforatu]

Heres the flywheel ready to fit. I wieghed it at work yesterday and it came in at 6.76Kg which is nice as the original wieghed 7.5Kg. i know this isn't a massive saving but this flywheel is twice as thick as the original. check the pics.

I shrank the ring gear on by putting the flywheel in the freezer overnight and then putting the ring gear in the oven at just below 100C for about twenty minutes. The ring just fell straight on then just let it come back up to ambient temp job done.

[Nosforatu]

heres the flywheel fitted showing the hook that i made to hold the flywheel from turnning whilst i torqued it up. also pics of the flex / sandwhich plate what ever you call it i had a choice of 2 but niether wre perfect so i used the closest fit but this had the starter motor on the wrong side so i copied the starter from the other one cut it out off some sheet and welded it in.
the gearbox is in now and conected up have started on the injection manifold and exhaust had a bad day yesterday nothing went right, the joy of conversions i guess.
more pics Nos

[Nosforatu]

Just finished the front part of the exhaust. Made it up from bens and straights aquired from a local machanics skip ( the stuff some people throw away ) got the idea from whatching biker build off, lots of trial fitting cutting and tacking before final welding. The joint from two pipes to one was fabbed with two pieces of sheet steel tacked and bent around the tube a bit at a time, the "V" was made on the vice with the jaws set about 30mm apart the working the sheet with the pointy bit of a panel beaters hammer.

[cambelt]

Well done on all your hard work , i was going to use a 3sfe in a suzuki 4WD a few years ago ..
You will get a bit of crap from people on here using a camry motor , but a 3sfe does have good low down torque for a van application , a 3sge wouldnt be good down low. i noticed the motor you have is map sensored , Aus 3sfe,s are all air flow metered i think
Dave

[Nosforatu]

Glad you like it. It seems to be taking forever to get done, As for the map sensor/air meter i think it goes on year of manufacture as the map sensor has a cat fitted and the air flow one's don't, but i could be wrong.

Cheers for the encoregment Nos.

[johnny blade]

Just finished the front part of the exhaust. Made it up from bens and straights aquired from a local machanics skip ( the stuff some people throw away ) got the idea from whatching biker build off, lots of trial fitting cutting and tacking before final welding. The joint from two pipes to one was fabbed with two pieces of sheet steel tacked and bent around the tube a bit at a time, the "V" was made on the vice with the jaws set about 30mm apart the working the sheet with the pointy bit of a panel beaters hammer.

Looks fine, but don't you need any OX-sensor?
Here's mine (It's completed a long time ago).
http://www.polkatulk.se/ModF/PICT0169.JPG
http://www.polkatulk.se/ModF/PICT0166.JPG

[Nosforatu]

yes i need a ox sensor haven't gotten round to fitting it yet was going to fit it were the two pipes come together, but wasn't sure, may fit it into the straight after the join.

[Nosforatu]

Hi all back after a long time actualy getting round to doing some more work on the van before the rust eats it all away.lol

Managed to get some time on the cnc lathe that i work and have started to make up the injection manifold,seems like this year has just flown bybut here are a couple of pics.

The large flange will go up against the head with the tube going between that and the smaller flange which will bolt to the plenhum? (dodgy spelling) chamber not sure wether to fab this or to get one cast? have been looking for a suitable box on and off but haven't found anything. the small flange will bolt through and into the stub stack which will sit in the plenum chamber.

The flanges still need to be drilled and cut/milled to fit, squared off where they need it.

this set up will give me the clearance i need but is quite a bit shorter than the original, long runners better for torque so i understand. hopeing that making the plenum with bigger volume than the original will act as a still air chamber giving better throttle response and may be boost the torque back up a bit?
I have read somewhere that it is the overal length of inlet that affects torque and not just the runners could anyone clarify this.