scrap the 18rg, here comes 1JZ, but how

[roadkill]

HI, well i've decided it's time. Time to get rid of the 18rg from my ra28 celica (actually the big end's decided it was time) Yeah, i could fix it, or could rebuild my spare, or....................... go a little crazy, spend what i can see being a fair bit of dosh, and drop in the almighty 1JZ!!!

Where do i start, i've seen a few done so i know it's possible. I've seen a few remarks saying ppl have done it here but i can't find any info/write ups of the hows/whats are needed. The only one that i have read up on was in zoom magazine (don't know when it was released) All they really needed to do was get a ta23 crossmember, move the firewall back 2ins (that'll be a fun one) and re shape above the gearbox - that's as far as fitting it in the engine bay was concerned.

Is there much difference in the ta/ra 23 crossmember. Will steering be my enemy??? I'm not terribly interested in going power steering (it's a great workout when it's not there) so that's one less thing to really worry about. What sort of structural support will i need to cope with the serious increase in power????

And lastly (for now) i gotta stop the thing. I'm thinking bigger brakes from a bigger car? Commodore??? Landcruiser??? I don't want to stray away from toyota's, but if it makes sense then why not. What fits???? What doesn't???? The more help the merrier.

[DQIKST]

hey,


1st of all good luck with the conversion all the best.

Please do a write up because i wish one day to do this conversion.

the difference between TA23 and RA23 x members is that the TA curves towards the back of the car where as the RA curves towards the front. one way or the other too dark to go and check out the TA23 x member 4 you sorry but im sure somebody here could clarify it for you.

as for the zoom magazine i think you are talking about the almighty HYP-O77 yes he did recess the firewall back 2in but he also used the original radiatior im pretty sure if you wish to use the supra radiatior you can get away from recessing the firewall.

i would suggest doing a search on these forums or the old ones for a celica brake upgrade or ask around here but you should explain to people what your main use of the car is going to be so people really help you out.

All The Best


IBZ

[slide86]

Here is the link to the celica brake upgrade, should so you some good info......

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3774&highlight=celica+brake+upgrade

[roadkill]

Hey,

thanks for the x member info - i'd love to see a pic if you (or anyone else) has one - more importantly where i could get one from!!!!!. Still don't know why the change tho - i mean could it be shallower to not have to change the sump, or does the sump on the 1jz sit closer to the front???? and yeah it is the hypo77

My intentions for the car is just basically a power upgrade. I thought about turbo 18rg, but for the dollars i could get the 1jz in and running and still have alot more potential (and reliability). I really am just looking for a somewhat stock motor (i know i'll need a new computer for it too - suggestions anyone) so the 280hp standard from the 1jz is what i need to build the car to. Eventually (2 years) i would like to make it alot stonger ie big snail, hks cams etc etc. If i have to do it the first time i'll do it right tho ie good computer, brakes, car structure and stability, exhaust etc etc

Haven't found a source for the motor yet either, not sure on front cut vs import motor w/box on crate

[Sikaleptik]

I have a TA23 cross member in my RA23 for the 1GGTE with front sump, I will try and take a photo for you if I can get over to my car in the next couple of days. Don't know much about the 1JZ conv. but I know with my car there is plenty of room round the steering components, a benefit on the front sump config. but unfortunately I need a custom front sway bar, not too much of a worry as they aren't too expensive. No doubt you've already looked at upgrading the diff, as the standard will blow to pieces if you drop the clutch.
Good luck with the endeavour......

[Draven]

you'll need a front sump 1jz - which unfortunately rules out supra and soarer 1jz engines (the most common) - you'll need a chaser front-cut (or mark2 as well?). From memory, you do not need to move the firewall back - if you front-mount the radiator (in front of the support panel) there will be room for thermos - but bear in mind what this will do to your intercooler space.
Brakes.... I'm not sure the celica items will be sufficient - best bet is to speak to an engineer to see what they would require. I know (most) engineers will pass a 1jz on ma61 brakes.
steering I have no idea on, but remember you'll also be up for a gbox (w58 being easiest), whichwill require a 2jz-ge bellhousing, flywheel etc. to mate the 1jz to the w58. on top of this, you'll need a new diff (1jz will kill the stocky, plus you'll really really want an LSD), and since you're doing diff and gbox, time also for a new shaft.

That's all I can think of at the moment, except that you'll aslo prolly want to do suspension some time soon

[The Witzl]

Budget $10,000 on top of the purchase of your 1JZ-GTE to do a tightarse conversion......

.... or budget $15k-20k to do it well.



... it AINT easy.

[Norbie]

Spend the money on the 18R-G.

FTW.

[The Witzl]

Spend the money on the 18R-G.

FTW.

Seconded :cool:

[Draven]

river is poisoning the minds of our youth!
what do you want the car for? do you really want power:weight of 300rwkw per tonne? or even 200?

[roadkill]

hi,

honestly, yes, yes i do. 200 rwkw is the starting goal, 2year goal is 300 rwkw. So yeah, fun fun fun. As for the 18rg upgrade - i'll spend just as much rebuilding it (turbo computer etc) as buying a 1jz and putting it in. Same amount of power so the brakes and diff have still all gotta be done regardless. Btw i intentend on getting 1jz w/box so no adaptor plates etc etc. As for the diff, i'm pretty sure i've got an lsd as i think the ra28 is a gt. ( i expect river to jump in here soon) All the badging is gone as the car has undergone a resto previously but the model no's indicate it is a gt (ra28r-mq-mmr) Can someone confirm or deny this thought?????

As for the sump issue, can toyota supply new chaser sumps??? And does the oil pump need a different pickup because of the difference in shape of the sump????

The Witzl, what makes you think it'll be 10k plus the motor for a tightarse conversion????? I intentend on getting the motor and everything in for less than 10k AND doing it well. Am I forgetting something???

Oh, and that'd be awesome to see that pic sikaleptik

[Draven]

yes, but is it an f-series or a t-series? 200+rwkw will chew up that little t-series diff.

I've never asked toyota about new sumps, but they can be had from wreckers.. just bear in mind you need the dipstick and pickup to suit the sump.
if you're planning on using the gbox that comes with the engine, get the persuader/blowtorch out and go to town on your transmission tunnel, cause I'm willing to bet the R154 will not fit in there without some lovin'.

[Smokey228]

are u actualy going to hack up a GT??? why man, get urself an LT and destroy that. spend 20k restoring the GT to its former glory or sumfin... :(

u know everytime a bell rings, an angel gets its wings? wel its quite the opposite wif the GT's.. everytime a angle grinder screams, a GT losses its value. its all very much...
mayb river should stay out of this thread, i think it will hurt to much to read it...












ahahha

[The Witzl]

I intentend on getting the motor and everything in for less than 10k AND doing it well. Am I forgetting something???


Sure thing guy, good luck with that.

[Draven]

well if you've got a mate who's giving you a half cut then sure, that's possible.
Have you done a conversion before? costs stack up REALLY quickly - the golden rule for first-timers is approximate what you will need, then double it.

[Sikaleptik]

The costs definately stack up, consider all the little bits and pieces such as nuts and bolts, grommets, wiring, efi fuel line and fittings, brake components and caliper rebuild kits, etc, etc, etc.........auto and electronic shops love people doing conversions cause they have money to burn.

[roadkill]

Hi guys,

look don't get me wrong, i know it aint gonna be cheap. But there are two rules when it comes to cars.

A: never EVER go to a retail outlet, unles you light your cigarettes with $50 bills
B: It doesn't matter how much something costs, time and patience and you will find it cheaper, often alot cheaper and ALWAYS remember what you can do for ppl to save a buck or two.

Yeah, i know that there is always going to be something that i'll miss, something that is going to cost more than i may have thought it was going to. But i'm in no rush whatsoever. If i've gotta stop for a while and save, so be it. What i'll also do here in this thread (or when it's finished a complete listing) is keep tabs on exactly how much i spend. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or rub there face in it. But just simply so ppl who may later have the same idea can get a pretty accurate idea on what they can expect to spend. Maybe do a price comparison or turbo 18rg vs 1ggte vs 1jzgte. Personally i think it'd be an excellent thing to see. Also power vs $.

As for the hacking up the "GT", it's already been done. There is no way that you would look at it and think that it is GT. I'm not sure if ppl saw it for sale on the old forum 9 months ago. Red '77 ra28 in perth, flared guards, custom fibreglass bodykit, bonnet scoop etc etc. It's been hacked and raped. Trust me, if i had a genuine gt in pretty good orig condition, i'd sell it. Why???? I'm not going to restore it to what it deserves. I like to tinker and muck around with my cars. I'd much prefer someone else that has the time and patience (and dollars) to look after the rare breed the way that they should. Anyone else agree???

As for the t or f series diff, how can i tell??? I'll prolly get rid of it anyway, worth knowing tho. The tunnel, that's nothing a welder and some steel and some skill won't fix(good ol dad!!!)

Anyho, i'm gonna surf and research. Any ta23 x member pics yet?>???

[aussie_stu]

hey road kill you looking at selling the 18rg?

[CLG]

I'm not sure if ppl saw it for sale on the old forum 9 months ago. Red '77 ra28 in perth, flared guards, custom fibreglass bodykit, bonnet scoop etc etc. It's been hacked and raped.


That car has a T series diff, and your analogy of the car being raped, is pretty much on the money - surprised the motor lasted that long actually!!!?!

[roadkill]

Hi, so what's the difference tho???? As for the motor lasting that long - it didn't. Someone who sells a car without a COMPLIANCE plate and no receipt even after it was specifically mentioned several times doesn't help!!!! Anyway, after all that fiasco i only had it on the road for about 8 weeks before the big end went, so no surprise really. Oh and that's after i replaced the clutch after 2 weeks. I couldn't even chirp 1st!!!! My old rg i could chirp up to 3rd!!! (had weber's tho...... ahhhhhhh)

As for the 18rg, i've had a few pm's sent. Basically, yes it will be for sale soon. I took the crank and rods out today to get them measured to see if they are furked or not. If they are reuseable then it'll go back together and sold complete with carbs (solex) If not then we'll see what's good or not. Keep you posted

[DQIKST]

hey i found this x member on the old forums.


could do anything about resizing it.

though i will get piks of my Ta23 x member that i have in storage.

link: http://img223.exs.cx/img223/3483/ta23crossmember9ec.th.jpg

hope this helps

[roadkill]

Hey man, thanks for that. Not a fantastic picture but it's the best so far. Interested in sellng that x memeber?????

[DQIKST]

your funny man,

what you think you are the only person saving up to do a 1JZGTE conversion.

sorry dude,

good luck with the conversion.

[DQIKST]

you will notice that RA x members are more rounded towards the radiator support panel.

[DQIKST]

here is a pik of the RA x member.

hope this helps

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/2848/celica024uk.jpg

[roadkill]

Hi, I try. usually doesn't work very well trying to be funny. I'll take that as a no tho. Still contemplating on customizing the ra28 one tho - that way i don't have to find a chaser 1jz. Even better, doing away with orig x member and getting a full custom job to suit the motor i find. It might actually be the easiest way, not neccesarily the cheapest tho.

I'm guessing your chasing the same goal???? How soon you lloking to start???

[DQIKST]

well i finish my apprenticeship in 1 year then i can start my diploma which will take 2 years then hopfully i will start then.

one of those long term goals

good luck

cya

[roadkill]

Hey dude, i like it when ppl set goals that are realistic. I think i'll be pushing it abit by trying to get it at least in by the end of the year, but we'll see. Besides that, you'll definately be one up on me cos hopefully there'll be some more info out there on this conversion (hopefully i can be of high assisstance)

Good luck. oh, and clint. how'd you know this car previously - is there anything else that i haven't found yet????

[Sikaleptik]

Ok here's the pics, I have a few more, but they are mainly the same angle, you should be able to get the idea. If you need then in higher resolution, just pm me and I can email them to you.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~flynn21/mypic37.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~flynn21/mypic38.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~flynn21/mypic39.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~flynn21/mypic40.jpg

[roadkill]

Hmmm, very interesting. i think i get the gist of it. It's now the steering that's got me a bit stuffed. Basically if the cross member is spun around 180 degrees then it's gonna be pretty much resting on the steering arms. Looks like some creative cutting and custom arm work is needed - or slight modification of a ta23 x member...... bit if 2" steel pipe welded into it.

Anyone got pics of a ta23 engine bay w/no engine. OR alternatively anyone is brisbane with a ta23 i can take some pics of.

The help so far has been fantastic!

[Sikaleptik]

Hard to see, but I don't have any problems with my steering arms, there is plenty of clearance, enough to put in rack and pinion. Not sure if it would be different with the 1JZ....
The curve of the RA xmember is far more pronounced than the TA, so if you were to flip that Xmember 180 for whatever reason, then you would probably have issues with steering.

[brett_celicacoupe]

is it just me or is ther no front sway bar?!?!

i bet you could fit 14 weetbix in that sump :P ...HUGE

[Sikaleptik]

Yeh, need a custom swaybar to fit around the sump.....maybe a big hammer would work......

[roadkill]

I don't think a big hammer would make a good swaybar......... i'm just thinkin remove it and the steering. Once the motor is in i'll see what fits and what doesn't. I know i'll need a new swaybar but i'd want a stronger one than normal anyway. Gonna try to get as little body roll as possible, solid as a rock.

Does anyone know if the ta23 to ra2X x member change is as easy as unbolting and re-bolting. Sounds easy in theory (but doesn't everything????)

[DQIKST]

yes it is easy as it sounds.

i also took some pictures of my ta23 x member just waiting to my bro in law to send them to me

[DQIKST]

Pics of my ta23 x member as requested hope this helps mate.

best of luck.

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/603/dscn01210rn.jpg

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/338/dscn01223ho.jpg

please document every move as i would hopfully one day be able to do this conversion.

[roadkill]

Mate that's awesome. thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you. I know i'm probably pushing my luck but what's the chances of an underneath photo????

As for a detailed "how to" i intend on continuing this thread until it is done. Every part and very dollar will be listed here. First things first, find the 1jz-gte w/auto box (insert drool here)

Btw, anyone live in/around brissie with a ta23???? (to look at, not to steal) PM me

[DQIKST]

no problem with an underneath shot, i should have taken one although i didnt know what you wanted.


there is one problem though i dont have a camera so you are going to wait until i get my hands on one.

[roadkill]

Hi dude, that's kool. I'm a patient person. I'm thinkin if i can't get a ta23 x member i might try to combine a ta22 and ra2x together. It might just do the job - hence the pics. It'll be needed before the motor goes in (for obvious reasons)

Does anyone out there have pics or know roughly sump configs on the 1jz's????
Also i remember a mate of mine swapped over a 18rc from a corona wagon to a corona liftback but we had to swap the sumps over as the x member was different. The liftback was the same config as the celica. What's the chances of a corona wagon (82ish) fitting into a ra2x????

Anyone got a corona wagon to get pics off??? they aint that common i know!

Thanks again,

[Pube]

I Have installed both a 1G & 1J into my RA23. For the 1J I had to do a fair bit of fabircation to get it to fit. I already had a new firewall but I had to further notch out an area where the engine will sit back into the cabin so you will need to learn out to use some sheet metal and al least know how to use a MIG welder. Then I had to make a new transmission tunnel. Im using a ford C4 gearbox that would be a similar width to an R154 but the C4 tapers back quickly towards the tailshaft. When making the new tunnel I had to remove the celica gearbox mounts so that creates another prob. I then had to get a new gearbox crossmember that is wide enough to go from rail to rail with custom mounts. I also have converted to rack and pinion steering. There is a fair amount of work involved so do your research ;)

[roadkill]

hi mate, thanks for the input. I haven't actually got a motor yet so i know it makes it a bit difficult to get started on it as far as measurements are concerned. did you use the chaser sump w/ta23 x member??? or a different combo???

I have done a bit of looking and from the measurements i have been given, the motor will fit in the bay fine but will scrape the snot out of the radiator. I figure it'll be easier to move the radiator forward 2" than the firewall back 2". I accept that i will have to modify the trans tunnel either way but i've got a mate that can mig pretty well. I was hoping to actually get an old 23/28 shell from a wreckers and do a lot of cutting and a bit of pasting for the trans tunnel. Hopefully making the g/box mounts a bit easier - but i don't know as i don't have the motor/box yet.

Where did you get your motor from and how much???? Come complete etc etc

Also did you drive it at all b4 the rack and pinion steering???? Just wanna know if it was a pig to drive or not.

Thanks

[brett_celicacoupe]

I Have installed both a 1G & 1J into my RA23. For the 1J I had to do a fair bit of fabircation to get it to fit. I already had a new firewall but I had to further notch out an area where the engine will sit back into the cabin so you will need to learn out to use some sheet metal and al least know how to use a MIG welder. Then I had to make a new transmission tunnel. Im using a ford C4 gearbox that would be a similar width to an R154 but the C4 tapers back quickly towards the tailshaft. When making the new tunnel I had to remove the celica gearbox mounts so that creates another prob. I then had to get a new gearbox crossmember that is wide enough to go from rail to rail with custom mounts. I also have converted to rack and pinion steering. There is a fair amount of work involved so do your research ;)


the question is.....was it really worth it in the end?? how does the 1jz compare with the 1g in terms of power/traction/weight dist etc.?

[Pube]

I hope it will be worth it in the end as its not finished yet. I think weight distribution will be ok as I have the engine as far back as possible, as far as the front sump will allow. Here are some pics that will show what you should expect if you are going to install a 1J into an ra celica, thats if you do it properly!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/pube83/P1010140.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/pube83/P1010134.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/pube83/P1010145.jpg

[roadkill]

thank you thank you thank thank you thank you thank you. Could you maybe get some closer pics of the engine mounts???? Did they come anything close to the ta23 xmember mounts?????? What diff upgrade are you going to do???

[Pube]

I made my own mounts and used commodore v8 (VN-VS) rubbers which are fairly universal. The amount of stuffing around trying to make original celica mounts fit, its easier to go custom in my opinion. For the diff ive got a ford 9 inch.

[brett_celicacoupe]

that firewall and tranny tunnel looks great :)

you sure there wont be any issues with the engine hitting the firewall when its twisting under its mass torque?


i reckon you should start a members ride thread for that car if you havent already

+rep 4 u :)

[Pube]

There is about an inch or so around the engine in the notched out area so if the engine was to touch, the engine would be moving around too much in the first place. Noltec make commodore mounts that use nolathane instead of the rubber so that would stiffen it up more plus I was going to use a snubber or brace to stop large amounts of movement anyway.

[BrianRA23]

Must have been 5 years ago was going to install a 1JZGE (non turbo) into my RA23.

I was using a W58 with custom adapter plate to the 1JZ and using the RA23 crossmember the engine sat in there with what I think was the mid sump 1JZ configuration. It all seemed to sit there without the firewall mod, and i think I had planned to mount the fans in front of the radiator.

18 months later I decided going to the 3SGTE due to weight/handling considerations and staying with the original 4 cylinder 2L configuration. I got a TA23 cross member for this but recently I started thinking the rack and pinion conversion might be the go using the AE86 crossmember.

Maybe the RA23 or AE86 crossmembers should be considered.

[TTV8RA23]

Good luck mate sounds awesome. I am in the process of putting a twin turbo 1UZFE R154and hilux diff into a 1976 RA23 Should be interesting i am hoping for the 300rwkw:D to. If anyone in NZ is reading this and has any RA23 or TA23 parts for sale please e mail me.

[DenZel]

i was the previous owner of this car, and i find it very fustrating you saying the car was "hacked and raped"

first of all
i spent a 1000$ plus passing this through the pits before the sale ,sending all receipts to you, which i didnt have to do considering a yellow sticker wouldnt matter as u would have to pass it through the pits anyway, but i did

the car had no rust/dents/scratches what so ever, and every part i replaced was new, and i never had any major problems with the car

also you knew there was no complaince nor did you ask about it, plus u only asked for a receipt once u tried to pass it over the pits and found out you couldnt, and when u asked for a recepit for proof of purchase, i quickly sent you one asap for your conveince

not sure what you are trying to say, but i was completely honest about this purchase and spent alot of money just weeks prior to the sale

[DQIKST]

dude there is two sides to a story, in your eyes you thought u worked hard and spent alot of money on it,

but in his eyes he thought it was hacked and raped maybe not by you, maybe he has stripped the paint back and it is a bare shell now,

i personaly dont know,

good luck with your 1JZ conversion and denZiel good luck with any future projects

[roadkill]

Wooohh, ease up turbo!!!

I don't like to write and bitch, but...... i'm going to.

1 - i was never aware of the fact that it had no compliance plate and when i asked you about it you played dumb saying you never realised it didn't have one.

2 - i said several times before the car was sent that i needed a receipt for proof of purchase or else it cannot be registered in QLD but still didn't get it until after i got the car
(in fact i'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter where it was going - you still need a receipt!!!!)

3 - about 6 weeks after i finally got it on the road (it took over 6 weeks to get the compliance bs sorted) the motor went. Upon pulling it a part we found it spun a bearing (that was severely worn) cracked the crank and cracked a piston. IT was because it had been run low on oil for and extensive preiod of time (and yes it had oil in it to a safe point always in my posession) Please note i'm not saying this is your doing but just the way it was!

4 - the battery was cracked and leaking battery acid into the engine bay (cos that's great for the paint and steel)

5 - i'm not saying that you that hacked and raped it as i know it's basically how you purchased it - just a mere observation. (whoever spent time and money on the car wasn't interested in originality)

6 - when i first inquired about the car i said not to worry about doing stuff to get it past the pits as i would have to go over the pits again anyway BUT you did anyway.

7 - The clutch was so stuffed that i couldn't even chirp 1st gear, cruising in 3rd or 4th it would slip badly making going up a hill a real chore. (this is part of the reason that i know i had very littly to do with the big end as i could never put any load on the motor in first place)

All things said and done i've still got the car, i'm piecing a couple of motors together to sell one good solid motor. Whilst things could have gone better with the car it just matches in perfect with how everything else went for me last year. i am still happy with the fact that i have a straight clean ra28 and will hopefully be shredding tyres late in the year.

If i wasn't happy at all you would have gotten some pretty angry phone calls at least.

Like i said, i don't like to bitch but now i've had my say. PM for anything further please.

Ben

P.S. The conversion will be starting very very soon. My tax cheque should be here in about 4 weeks. I have sourced a 1jzgtte for $1000 complete (no ecu etc) Microtech ecu for about $1000, still not sure on what gearbox yet, have NOS, cooler and exhaust ppls lined up ready to inspect. I know still alot to go but the ball is just about to start rolling.

When i pick up the 1jz i'll start a new thread somewhere, somehow.

Copulater.

[77GZE]

Yes, i to remember that red ra28, looked mean, but had been balls to the bitter end!

[sheepers]

hi all,
ive done the conversion you speak of.
there are heaps of little bits and peices you discover as you go allong but here are the main points of what i did.
used a 1jz with a mid sump.
bought a bell housing for a 1jz to w5* kit from dellow auto in sydney.
modded the bellhousing/ sump to fit a landcruzer slave cylinder ( much bigger bore than the one supplied, clutch master cylinder blew every 8 weeks with the original dellow slave )
used an ra23/ 18rc crossmember, cut the mounts off and seam welded it. lowered the crossmember by 15mm to get the engine sitting lower. youll need to fit roll center correctors if you do this. slotted the steering box holes and the idler arm holes to drop them by about 10mm.
used a w55 box, slight massaging of the trans tunnel required but not much.
made extentions for the rear gear box mount, two peices of 20 x 3 steel bent to shape and welded to floor ( too easy ) then used the original w55 rear rubber mount bolted to the original gearbox cross member.
drive shaft shortened.
sump ( metal pan ) required modding to clear steering.
removed "low oil sencer " from sump. had to to clear steering.
radiator is 3 core and still in stock location, thermo fan in front of radiator. intercooler ( stock at the mo ) is on an angle and in front of thermo fan.
made mounts for cross member, cant remember what rubber mounts we used, something toyota.....
stock shape sway bar.
umm..... thats about all the major stuff that i can think off.
im going to be putting the motor into my RA28 latter this year so ill do a write up on that as i go.
if you need any more/ detailed info pm me.
hope this helps,
latter,
sheepers.