Projecto 4wd ae82 hatch : Phase 1

[myne]

They say a picture tells 1000 words, so I'm going to let the pictures do most of the talking.


Effectively what you're about to see is :
AE82 : hatch rear end, Front strut + rear strut top.
AW11 : rear trailing arm, small rear lower control arm
SV21 : hub (though it's in place of a more expensive AW11 hub)
Custom adjustable (for mock up purposes) lower control arm based on the AW11 main lower control arm but longer

http://www.users.on.net/~jvizard/myne/4wdproj/DSCF0058.jpg
larger (http://www.users.on.net/~jvizard/myne/4wdproj/LDSCF0058.JPG)
http://www.users.on.net/~jvizard/myne/4wdproj/DSCF0060.jpg
Yellow tape shows more or less where the drive shaft would have to go. Not ideal, but it should be no worse than some of the 4wd's I've seen.
http://www.users.on.net/~jvizard/myne/4wdproj/DSCF0062.jpg
larger (http://www.users.on.net/~jvizard/myne/4wdproj/LDSCF0062.JPG)
http://www.users.on.net/~jvizard/myne/4wdproj/DSCF0063.jpg
larger (http://www.users.on.net/~jvizard/myne/4wdproj/LDSCF0063.JPG)
Pretty well centred in the guard (by measurement)

[mullett]

So you're going to weld this on, or use it as a mock up for a full-scale project? It's different, and I'm intruiged...You CAN use the driveshaft as the rear arm in a wishbone (and presumably strut) arrangement, Lotus did it years ago...just a thought.

RM.

[myne]

That's the remains of my mates 20v, I'm just using the body to mock it up before I spend any real cash and before I take a real car off the road.
My aim is to create a working rear end capable of supporting drive without modifying the chassis at all.

[oldcorollas]

did you ever find out how the AE85 was made? wouldn't it be easier to copy what toyota did already?
not as much fun tho ;)

[myne]

AE85 IIRC was a north south mounted 4wd with a live axle.
The AE95, (the car I plan to steal the gearbox from) is an east west 4wd with a live axle.

The only IRS setup that was close enough to make me think it'd work was the AW11's and trust me, it was close. Just the main LCA wasnt long enough.

[mullett]

Interesting...I've thought about this with different cars. It seems to me that you'd be better off making most of the suspention to suit, Hi-tensile rod and balljointed ends would go a long way. Lots of effort, but it'd be unique. How are you going to ensure the handling balance isn't knackered?

RM.

[myne]

So far I only need to make the main lower control arm. The trailing arm is adjustable already so I have a little leeway there, but it's pretty spot on anyhow. Why make more than you have to?

Handling wise, I'm not really sure. There's no way to BE sure till it's done.
One thing that has me slightly concerned is the amount of toe change during travel. It toes in quite noticably as the suspension sags, and toes out as it compresses.
However, that's exactly what the AW11 had in its' design, so I guess it should be ok with the right spring rates.
I definitely need some shorter dampeners. There's barely 50mm of compression travel as it is now with the 350mm AE82 front dampener in it. Anyone know of any shocks of say 270mm?
I am not sure how making the rear end probably 50kg heavier will affect balance, but I figure most of it should be unsprung, and quite low so it cant be that bad. Also, it might make handling even better with a more even weight distribution.
I also suspect I may need to space the front wheels out a cm or so to compensate for what appears to be a very slight increase in rear track.

I plan to trial this suspension arrangement on a real car before I move on to phase 2.

The suspension working correctly is an absolute must. If I cant make it work atleast as well as what I have now, that's the end of it. There's no point continuing if it makes a nimble car into a pig.

[Toycrash]

What differentials youre going to use?
If you use AE95 gearbox, you'll need 2.9:1 rear final ratio ;)

[Turdinator]

You CAN use the driveshaft as the rear arm in a wishbone (and presumably strut) arrangement, Lotus did it years ago...just a thought.

RM.
Probably not a good idea with the std drive shafts. They're not designed to take the thrust loads. Infact some cv joints are designed to be able to move length ways aswell as allowing angular misalignment. The Jag rear end that uses the drive shaft as a wishbone use heavy duty uni's to do this. Tthe same ones used in ford F350s but they still need regular replacement.

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

son of a bitch... i was thinking basically this exact idea, 4wd ae82!! main thing id put in mine if i made it was my 3sgte iv got out the back :P

[Tofuboi]

Good luck on the project. I know someone who has just done two 4A-GE's in an AE82 chassis, one in the front, one in the rear, via two linked gearboxes, 2 all 4 wheels, damn its fast :P

[wagonist]

AE105s were available wiht 4wd IRS. Though finding parts for those would be hard in Oz.
The toe in/toe out problem is because you're using a front hub on the rear. The offset position of the steering point is what's pulling the wheels around.
You'd be better off using GT4 rear end parts with shortened arms. They're readily availalable from importers who bring in the parts for the rear diff. The suspension isn't worth crap. Either that or forking out for the AW11 or SW20 rear hubs as they're designed for the rear end.
You're going to have some very nasty handling charastistics otherwise.

[myne]

The hubs on there, I'm fairly certain are the same casting as AW11 hubs with a couple of quite minor differences. They're only there until I can borrow some aw11 hubs for testing. *peers at Starfire*
I thought of GT4 gear originally, but after some rough measurements I thought the aw11 gear would bolt straight up. It almost does, but ohwell.
I dont suppose anyone in Adelaide has spare GT4 suspension they wouldnt mind loaning out for suitability testing, or knows of a place that wants to get rid of some?

[Starfire]

Yeah,

I really do need to strip the rear end of the wreck out. Especially since I need to play musical suspension myself and my clutch has started slipping...

[RobertoX]

I think ae85 is the 3ac rwd sprinter?

Just out of interest, I watched this video "High Octane Detonate" and this guy had what looked like a twin engine ae82 seca, it had 2 4AGTE's 1 in the front and 1 in the boot... It went fast :)

The video is pretty dodgy and don't really give much detail about the cars in it.

ps its nice to see someone actually having a go rather than posting up "what bits do I need for a 4wd conversion in my ae82?" :P